Ford Marmon-Herrington V8 1.5 Ton GS

[Larry Hayward]

The Ford MH in the attached photo is for sale in the UK and I wondered whether such vehicles were used by the British Army or RAF with the GS body? I have seen photos of another Ford MH with a Snowgo rotary snow plow on the front which was a type used by the RAF but I am not sure about any other variants. The 1942 built GS in this photo is said to have only 3800 miles on the clock and been in store. So perhaps its ex- Norwegian Army and they got it direct from the USA postwar -and perhaps it's a type that never saw much use in the UK? I would be interested in any in service photos of one in British Army or RAF use during the war.
The price is £3500 as is or £4500 on the road!

[nuyt]

Larry, out of curiosity, why do you think it 's ex-Norwegian?
Kind regards,
Nuyt

[Bill Murray]

Hi David & Nuyt:

Interesting vehicle!!

According to my records and my recollection, this particular truck was never classified as Standard by the US Army.

I have, however, seen photos of the basic chassis used as a snowblower, presumably by USAAF and USN, who maintained a separate vehicle park and had different manuals similar to TM 9-2800 to catalogue them. I only have a Navy one from 1950 or so and none of the AAF ones.

I have also seen this same chassis used as a tipper on the ALCAN highway project, so some numbers must have been procured.

There was in the US classification system a class of vehicles labelled "Limited Standard" as opposed to "Standard" and the former were often assigned to installations rather far removed from the actual front lines or were provided to Allied nations as part of the Lend Lease Program, provided "under the cover", sold outright or after the war ended, sold more or less as surplus or given to various Allies.

A quick perusal of my own collection failed to turn up a US variant as a GS truck so this may be a bit of a rare bird. And....the asking price on the road with that low mileage seems like rather a bargain as well.

Bill

[Larry Hayward]

Hi Folks

I also saw reference to the use of this type on the Alcan highway, but Bart's books also say it was used by the RAF. I have found photos of more variants. As mentioned in the first post, one is a Ford MH with Snowgo gear attached, that's also for sale in Scotland for £3250 but its owner is unconnected to the GS vehicle. According to the owner of the Snowgo it is from a 'batch bought by Uncle Sam and lend-leased to the RAF under Supply Mech 2721'. Is that a contract number and was it just for Snowgo equipped snow plows or a batch of many different sub types?

[Larry Hayward]

Nuyt,

Why do I think the Ford MH GS was ex-Norwegian? Only because I seem to remember seeing a photo of a Dodge Chev or Ford workshop truck in a MV magazine last year which had also been in store for years in Scandinavia - again in good order and with very low milage. sadly I can't rememer which Magazine it was in.

[Larry Hayward]

The second vehicle that was up for sale in August 2005 in the Uk was a Ford MH fitted with a Holmes Gantry. In Barts book page 239 there is a Canadian 3 ton Ford 098T with the same style rear end and Holmes Gantry. Could the the vehicle in the attached photo be an original variant then or a post war combination perhaps using the rear body off some other WW2 vehicle? I have no idea whether this truck was rated at 30 cwt or 3 tons.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Larry Hayward
The second vehicle that was up for sale in August 2005 in the Uk was a Ford MH fitted with a Holmes Gantry.

Larry,

That one was also a Snogo originally. The Holmes jib was from another vehicle. I carried out an inspection of this truck for a forum member late last year.

Richard

[gordon]

Well that SnoGo up there is mine, but I'll admit the cargo truck looks more usable.

Some points to note.

1. The SnoGo version was extremely heavy, with the heaviest suspension you could get on that chassis and all manner of helper springs, etc. It also sits on the optional 18" wheels and 18 x 8.25" tyres and not the much more common 20" ones.

2. The SnoGo chassis is shorter that you would want for fitting the standard 1.5 ton Budd cargo body by about 10" or 12". You could make it look right but you'd have to shorten the (already rare) body, so you would actually be better to cut a more common GMC 6 x 6 body.

3. No problem identifying the ones built on SnoGo chassis as they have the most humungous crawler gearbox mid-chassis - bigger than the main transmission and transfer put together.

As far as I know that Supply Mech was just for the SnoGo variant.

Gordon

(PS, anyone want to buy my SnoGo ? discount for forum members - needs a good home)

[Larry Hayward]

Thanks guys.

But do you have any clues to the former use of the GS currently on sale?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Not quite the same, but here's a picture of a 1940/1941 1.5-ton 4x2 GS truck in service with the US Civilian Conservation Corps.

[Larry Hayward]

Thanks Hanno,

I'm still wondering how the Ford MH came to be in the UK.

I suppose it could have been imported direct fom the USA but its not one of those 'popular' types you would expect people to want that badly!

Thats why I though it could have come via a European country that got Marshall Aid post war.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
a 1940/1941 1.5-ton 4x2 GS truck in service with the US Civilian Conservation Corps.

Here is a picture showing what the CCC used them for in reality: CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) boys and trucks were used to help some of the families move out of the area being taken over by the Army in Caroline County, Virginia.

Source: http://www.loc.gov/rr/print/catalog.html
Digital ID: fsa 8c06174 Source: intermediary roll film
Reproduction Number: LC-USF34-044831-D (b&w film neg.)
Repository: Library of Congress Prints & Photographs Division Washington, DC 20540

[Hanno Spoelstra]

And a nice rear view.

Source: http://www.loc.gov/rr/print/catalog.html
Digital ID: fsa 8c06147 Source: intermediary roll film
Reproduction Number: LC-USF34-044804-D (b&w film neg.)
Repository: Library of Congress Prints & Photographs Division Washington, DC 20540

[Larry Hayward]

Here is a better photo of the Ford MH with a GS body, which looks to have a similar GS body to that fitted to the Chevrolet 1.5 Ton YP-G-4112 and similar Dodge 1.5 ton vehicles. The vehicle seen here was used by a local council in the UK post war and it has been stored for years. No mention of it ever being a Snogo, and if it was where did the body come from? It looks quite original.

Has anyone got any photos of a Ford MH in RAF service? Barts bible says the RAF had them but Hanno's Ford MH site makes no mention of them in use by the UK.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The only British M-H orders I know of are:

S/M 2208 Marmon-Herrington [Australia] E.g. 46539
S/M 2721 Ford 29T/Marmon-Herrington KMM5-4/ Klauer Snogo LTR [1942/3] [circa 80 units] E.g. # KMM5-4-529368

However S/M 2606 2606, a 1942 contract, was originally thought to be for Snogos but was in fact for the Ford 29T

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Larry Hayward
Has anyone got any photos of a Ford MH in RAF service? Barts bible says the RAF had them but Hanno's Ford MH site makes no mention of them in use by the UK.

I think you'll find Bart was referring to the 80 or so SnoGo's Lend-Leased to the RAF for use on airfields during WW2.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
However S/M 2606 2606, a 1942 contract, was originally thought to be for Snogos but was in fact for the Ford 29T

Well, from the spare parts list we know S/M 2606 was for right-hand drive 3-ton 134" wheel-base trucks supplied by Ford Canada, converted with Marmon-Herrington front driven axle and transfer case. These could have been Ford C29T's, but as there's no reference to a complete vehicle, S/M 2606 more likely were CKD kits for either the Australian Dingo armoured car or Ford/Marmon-Herrington gun tractor.

H.

[Larry Hayward]

Here is another photo of the same vehicle, giving another shot of the near side. It looks to be LH drive, as there is only one wiper blade.

[Larry Hayward]

Hanno,

The owner describes the vehicle as on milweb:-

Ford Marmon-Herrington V8 1.5 ton
Cargo G5 1942, runs well, no rust, stored 40 years,

What is a G5 model of a Ford M-H. Does it give any clue to its origin?

I think it must also be a re-bodied Snogo other wise it would have sold!

[Nick Coaker]

Hi everyone, I've seen this truck in the metal, it is left hand drive and rusty, and back up for sale, he says due to lack of storage, but its in the same place it was last year. Hopefully I've attached a photo and my HUW is behind it. The bonnet has a modern Ford badge on either side, the left one blue, the right one red. I don't know if thats of any consequence, but they look like new 'uns to me. The cab interior was not good, and the V8 was not very pretty either! The canvas is plastic, which, to throw a curve ball in, is a French thing to me. I may be wrong there. The body is the very same on the Chevs and Dodges, and appears to have been there for some time. I know its up for less now, but at the time my cohorts and I decided, when we found out what needed doing to it for the extra thousand, the seller came up a little short on his offer.

In other news, he has a C15 up for sale on Milweb. Located in Shropshire, UK.

[Nick Coaker]

Sorry guys, when I said C15 I really meant F15. I'm not sure whether to go with brain made of cheese, or c and f are very close on the keyboard. Brain made of cheese, it's less feeble and more realistic for me!

[gordon]

Of course it would be easy enough to tell by looking underneath, where you would find the massive auxilliary crawler gearbox as I have on mine.

The truck pictured has the correct cargo truck front bumper, no slots for hoses and rams, no marks on the cab roof where the raised headlights would have been, and of course it doesn't have the 18" wheels that were used as big singles on the SnoGo.

While I'm on, I've found one new 8.25 x 18 ten ply tyre (thanks to MLU) so I'd rather like to find one Ford-MH 18" wheel rim as used on the SnoGo, which would let me swap this new tyre on and leave me with a spare - always a good thing when the truck didn't come with one and tyres are impossible to get from a dealer.

May have a couple of newish 18" tyres found in the US too, so a spare rim is looking more and more necessary - can't leave the damn thing sitting on a jack as at nearly seven tons my garage and bottle jacks won't lift it.

[Larry Hayward]

So Nick,

Do you think the vehicle was built as a GS?

Did you see any data plates on it.

I am curious to know if the RAF had any of these in the UK or NW Europe during WW2

[Nick Coaker]

Hi Larry,
bearing in mind it was a year ago I saw it, I'll be going on memory and photographic evidence. The body has been on that truck a very long time, I don't remember seeing any plates, unfortunately. If it wasn't for the fact that I knew better, I'd almost say that it's a Chev 1 1/2 ton body on it, but the fittings on each version are quite different, petrol tanks and spare carriers mainly. The cab, on the other hand, is not the same as the Ford 1 1/2 ton, the only thing that is close is the Ford MH dump truck cab, which, according to the bible, were used for the Alcan Highway and Canol Project. The body is not a dumper, as the mudflaps come straight down, and they are there! It doesn't have the dumper bumper (wahey). To me, its a rare bird and worth saving. To go further would mean going back up to Shrewsbury, which is a bit of a trek for me.
Need some of this, now...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
1940/1941 1.5-ton 4x2 GS truck

Drawing from a Ford manual, showing the 134" wheelbase chassis with the standard US military GS body. Adding a Marmon-Herrington All-Wheel Drive conversion was a logical thing to do, it seems.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Larry Hayward
The Ford MH in the attached photo is for sale in the UK

Found some pics of this truck on my hard drive. Don't know where this truck is today.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Found some pics of this truck on my hard drive.

He're some more; first one courtesy of Nick.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
That one was also a Snogo originally. The Holmes jib was from another vehicle. I carried out an inspection of this truck for a forum member late last year.

Here are some of Richard's pictures:



The owner at that time, Keith King, found a derelict SnoGo 20 or so years ago (there's a small pic in Wheels & Tracks magazine). It had a wooden GS body sitting on the rear half of the chassis where the snow blower gear once sat (probably an abandoned restoration?). Keith and Bart Vanderveen knew each other well, and the picture of the Canadian 3 ton Ford 098T with Holmes wrecker set was the only one Bart could come up with. So Keith restored it with a Holmes jib, losely based on the picture in Vanderveen's book:



The crawler gear Gordon described was removed, Keith told me the Ford could to 50-60 mph in this configuration:




The plan was to fit this truck with a genuine GS body off a Ford 1.5-ton truck:



Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Does anybody know where the two survivors discussed in this thread ended up?

Thanks,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

The owner at that time, Keith King, found a derelict SnoGo 20 or so years ago (there's a small pic in Wheels & Tracks magazine).

Here's a picture of Keith's Ford/M-H at Beltring, circa 1990-1995, courtesy of Tony Corbin.

H.