6 Volt Fuel Pump

[Richard Hughes]

Does anybody out there know a source of 6 volt electric fuel pumps ??

As the fuel pump on my ford doesn't have a hand primer, pumping fuel up on an initial start up can be a problem.

Cheers
Richard Hughes

[oztankboy]

hi there!

A cheap fix is to fit a out board motor fuel line primming bulb inline. Makes for a easy prime and also helps to stop fuel draining back to the fuel tank.

Phil...

[Dirk Leegwater (RIP)]

Originally posted by Richard Hughes
Does anybody out there know a source of 6 volt electric fuel pumps ??

LwD shop www.lwdparts.com

For sale:

Fuel pump, 6 volt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part number 9350-C29Q
Category Fuel pump
Part name Fuel pump, 6 volt

Description

Price 45 EUR

[Richard Hughes]

Thanks for the quick reply I will chase up the electric as the easy option but if that doesn't pan out go for the bulb .

Cheers
Richard Hughes

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Richard Hughes
Does anybody out there know a source of 6 volt electric fuel pumps ??

As the fuel pump on my ford doesn't have a hand primer, pumping fuel up on an initial start up can be a problem.

Cheers
Richard Hughes

Richard..
Don't forget ,if you are installing an electric fuel pump ,you must install a relief line back to the tank,so that when carb demand is satisfied and float closes off the fuel that the fuel has somewhere to go..Other wise the pump will deadhead and burn out..
And it will happen quickly..

[Pete Ashby]

Originally posted by Alex Blair
Richard..
Don't forget ,if you are installing an electric fuel pump ,you must install a relief line back to the tank,so that when carb demand is satisfied and float closes off the fuel that the fuel has somewhere to go..Other wise the pump will deadhead and burn out..
And it will happen quickly..

Alex is right

however if you fit it as a switched system then there is not a problem, the OCMPG crew have this as a standard mod to our trucks using the toggle switch for blackout lights, on 11 and 12 cabs.

We use it for priming on cold start and for hot start vapour lock problems and also for vapour lock during prolonged hill climbing on hot days, .........yes it can get that hot in Oxfordshire at least on one day a year.

Pete

[Dirk Leegwater (RIP)]

Originally posted by Richard Hughes
Does anybody out there know a source of 6 volt
electric fuel pumps ?? Part 2

Richard, here's a drawing of an electric fuel system.

Mvg. Dirk

[Richard Hughes]

Thanks everyone for the advice and info, me and electrics need all the help they can get. Am probably going to put switch thru blackout as suggested.

Dirk have sent mail to you on your website re pump and several other bits I am after .

Cheers
Richard Hughes.

[Lang]

Alex,

I think you will find that an electric pump needs no return line. They have a pressure switch which shuts them down at a certain pressure. Fuel injected vehicles require return lines for other reasons but not older carb engines. The diagram of the gun tractor fuel system shows no return line.

If you invent a return line without some sort of sophisticated pressure regulating valve the fuel will take the easiest path and just run back down the big hose into the tank rather than having to squeeze through the needle and seat.

If you have owned a Landrover, Jaguar or any one of many British types you will have heard the pump rattle away when you first turn the ignition on then slow down and stop as fuel pressure rises. If you just sit with the ignition on the pump will not continue to run unless it has a faulty shut-off switch (a highly likely situation if it is a Lucas pump!).

The reverse also happen with those Lucas pumps and several times the driver behind me has wondered what this lunatic is doing as he jumps from the car (Mark II Jag) and smashes his hand repeatedly on the rear of the vehicle to get the Lucas pump running after the fuel pressure drop was not sensed by the pump and it failed to get going.

Modern Japanese pumps and motor shop after market pumps do not need bypass lines.

Lang

[Lang]

Another comment on return lines. If you do put in a return line and the pump can keep up with both the engine supply and circular return flow it will be running flat out continuously and will certainly fail before its allotted four score and ten years.

On the gun tractor fuel diagram you can see a little "bell" on top of the pump. This is the pressure sensor and as the diaphram rises and falls with the fuel pressure it makes and breaks contact with the pump motor.

Lang

Originally posted by Lang
If you have owned a Landrover, Jaguar or any one of many British types you will have heard the pump rattle away when you first turn the ignition on then slow down and stop as fuel pressure rises. If you just sit with the ignition on the pump will not continue to run unless it has a faulty shut-off switch (a highly likely situation if it is a Lucas pump!).

Ah, I think you mean a SU pump and not Lucas, everyone who has ever had the pleasure of a SU electric pump fed vehicle has been let down by it. Even the modern additions of twin points or electronic switching doesn't cure them, desperately useless things and best used for hand grenade practice.

Now the reliable modern pumps like Bendix or Facet do indeed rattle away continuously since they have internal return circulation at their set output pressure.

R.

[Lang]

Richard,

You are right about the pump. Whenever I think British electrics my mind is overwhelmed by the memories of the misery Lucas has caused me over the years (I have now reformed from a period of buying "interesting" British cars!)

I suppose I am completely unreasonable as I have no problem with Blacks, Whites, Jews, Catholics or Moslems and can even understand All-Black supporters (I am still struggling with gays and Poms) but mention Lucas and a black cloud descends upon my day. I think I should be more even handed and say not just Lucas but the combined efforts of all the British electrical manufacturers had a very large part to play in bringing one of the world's great auto industries to its knees.

Lang

[Keith Webb]

Ahhh the memories... of my Morris Minor on a hot day... I kept a large spanner on the floor to belt the firewall in just the right place to kick start the pump when the engine started to falter... I too had a misspent youth with an assortment of Minors (most types), Singer Gazelle, Oxfords and even a Wolseley 4/44. I still have the Singer, it's down at the farm, the occasional home of a red belly black snake which finds it's way through the rust in the floor to sun itself on the dash.

[Pete Ashby]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
the occasional home of a red belly black snake which finds it's way through the rust in the floor to sun itself on the dash.

There you go again !!! how you people live in such a country defeats me.

Ah yes SU indeed R, that machine gun rattle announcing that yet again I'd run out of petrol......... or the silence when the ignition was turned on that resulted in turning all the junk out of the boot to whack the pump with the ever ready jack handle.

The OCMP use modern 12 volt pumps and for the little use they are put to seem to be reliable


Pete PTO&G

Originally posted by Lang
Richard,

You are right about the pump. Whenever I think British electrics my mind is overwhelmed by the memories of the misery Lucas has caused me over the years (I have now reformed from a period of buying "interesting" British cars!)

Oh, Joe Lucas, Prince of Darkness isn't so bad Lang, you have obviously not reached the yardstick of despair represented by the other UK vehicle electrics makers; Wipac and Miller. . . . . . . . . .

I have noted on a caravan accessory forum, since I have just bought an older and small 'van for MV show living, that our sole make of built-in gas water heater has an auto ignite spark system and if this isn't working, the professionals on the forum say, check if the HV module is Wipac and then throw this part away and re-fit the part from alternate makers.

I suppose I am completely unreasonable as I have no problem with Blacks, Whites, Jews, Catholics or Moslems and can even understand All-Black supporters (I am still struggling with gays and Poms) but mention Lucas and a black cloud descends upon my day. I think I should be more even handed and say not just Lucas but the combined efforts of all the British electrical manufacturers had a very large part to play in bringing one of the world's great auto industries to its knees.

Well, I have a huge problem with "gays" since a perfectly useful and handy word has been hijacked from the Oxford English Dictionary; gay does not mean homosexual. Whatever they want to get up to privately is of course entirely up to those of that preference and I note with much guffawing the great land of Oz has a plethora of highly amusing slang terms for the whole scenario, however. . . .

Joe Lucas has much to answer for and certainly didn't do the UK car industry a lot of good; surprisingly and of initial concern my actual Wolfsburg made 16 volt VW Gruff has Lucas brakes. . . . . . . .

I also have to report they work admirably except of late and after some 10 years, the ABS has become intermittent and its not a wheel sensor. I'm told its the electronic controller "card", hugely expensive and I suspect a piece of Joe Lucas' best efforts.

Ho hum.

R.

[Richard Farrant]

Don't forget the wretched Autovac, that comes way down the list below Bendix and SU pumps. In fact SU pumps are not as bad as made out to be. They often suffer from neglect, not having the contacts cleaned and checked, and being fitted in places where they are subject to moisture. At that time they were good and enabled fuel to fill the carb before winding over, thus saving battery and starter wear.

Also, lay of Joe Lucas, at least the older parts (switches, etc) were able to be dismantled and cleaned, more than can be done with US made crimped together, chuck away items If anyone has had experience of Italian made electrics, they will know how good Lucas products are in comparison.

Richard

[Richard Hughes]

Dirk

One quick query the parts list picture of the fuel system you attached is this for a special conditions eg tropical use or was it just a late mod as Ford realised there was vapour locking issues

Cheers
Richard Hughes

Originally posted by Pete Ashby
There you go again !!! how you people live in such a country defeats me.

Quite so, perhaps the finest legal minds here that selected the original population weren't so far off the mark after all. . . . . .

Ah yes SU indeed R, that machine gun rattle announcing that yet again I'd run out of petrol......... or the silence when the ignition was turned on that resulted in turning all the junk out of the boot to whack the pump with the ever ready jack handle.

Gosh! You must have had a good one.
10/10 to BLMC for putting the Mini pump on the rear subframe where it was both unreachable and basked in a diet of salt water and road crud.

The OCMP use modern 12 volt pumps and for the little use they are put to seem to be reliable

Indeed so, I am a little shocked that Richard F finds the Autovac unreliable, a device that functions even with its float punctured, fills the carb before start-up and selected by the Army for its reliability over other types; indeed all those hordes of busses and coaches with the Autovac outside on the set back bulkhead doing service year in and out.

Rory's PU one is a delight and I see the CDSW Autovac is in assembly on the bench. Whereas the SU pump "overhauled" to "as-new", by a well known firm of carb and fuel experts whose name begins with B, gave a few desultory clicks and then refused to go without continual tapping. This is about the third I've seen in the last 2 years fitted in high hopes of an as-new and expected reliable device, at some expense, that has been a dismal failure.



Pete, ol' chap; perhaps we'll have the pleasure of yourself and some OCMPG people later in May.

Must dash, forms to do.

R.

[Richard Hughes]

After lots of to-ing and fro-ing I am finally getting round to installing the 6 volt electric fuel pump kindly supplied by Dirk Leegwater. Under the drivers step next to the fuel filter there are 2 pre drilled holes already there which perfectly match the mounting holes of the pump, however when i attach the pump there is a nats nadgers gap between the pump inlet and the chassis .
Has anybody else out there fitted the pump and if so how does it mount,(does anybody have any pics) because other than making up a bracket or drilling a hole in the chassis(which I dont want to do) I am a bit stuck.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Richard Hughes.

[Mike K]

I agree with Richard F on this . The SU (Skinner Union ) pumps work OK if a little basic maintenance is performed . The SU brand , derives from two brothers ( Skinner ) who developed the SU carby , the factory and patents were purchased by a William Morris in the 1920's I think . Some pre war Morris cars used SU pumps , the design didn't change much . I think Morris / Cooper S mini's of the 1960's used em too ......
a smaller version .


Many people dont realise many of the SU pump problems are caused by a weak diaphram spring . Everybody heads for the points , but , over time the return spring weakens and the thing won't work . A quick fix is to pull the spring apart and re-tension it . A new spring is cheap too .

When I was a kid , the LUCAS factory was on the corner of Bay road and Nepean Highway , Cheltenham , just opposite where Southland is now . They must have made millions of those C39-C40 genes there , or were they imported and assembled there ? It was a huge complex . I believe the first Holdens, FX-FJ used Lucas before going over to Bosch .

Lucas had a habit of using poor connectors , often , wires were just left bare and a simple screw in locking system meant that poor conductivity was the norm . Connectors would oxidise and all you needed to do was clean em up .

Mike

Mike

[Mike K]

Originally posted by Richard Notton
Quite so, perhaps the finest legal minds here that selected the original population weren't so far off the mark after all. . . . . .

Hey Richard Notton ,

I resemble that remark .

[Lynn Eades]

I understand the involvement of Skinners Union(a tannery?) was because the first carburettor had a leather bellows or diaphragm. (Mike don't forget Jaguar)

[Mike K]

Hi Lynn ,

This web page describes the basic history of the SU carby - its origins .

http://www.valvoline.com/carcare/art...cid=5&scccid=5

Mike

[Lynn Eades]

Thanks Mike