Australia Mystery 15cwt

[Tony Smith]

Had a look at this very original but weathered 15cwt today. It's still complete with many original fittings such as radiator overflow tank, splash panel, radio supression leads, Aust pattern 4" mirrors, Aust pattern toolbox and 16" wheel carrier and Aust GS Body. Seems to be a very nice, unbuggerised example.

[Tony Smith]

Unusually for an Aust Army vehicle, the Engine Number 3G19974F(correctly used as the vehicle serial number) has been stamped on BOTH the gearbox bellhousing........

[Tony Smith]

.... AND on the top of the right hand chassis rail near the engine mount. Nothing wrong there, the numbers match.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Needs a little air in that right front tyre, but otherwise...

[Tony Smith]

The truck is a good condition 4x2 with green paint on much of the chassis and no extra holes where a missing T/Case crossmember may have mounted. Everything is nicely in it's place as the manual says it should be. Even still has the original exhaust hangers!

[Tony Smith]

Despite this appearing for all intents and purposes an untouched, original F15 4x2, the Data Plate describes this truck as being an F15A 4x4!! Even shows the parts book as being F15A-01! Right plate, as it the Engine Number is listed as 3G19974F.

Another, but lesser mystery, is that the truck is shown as a '42 truck with a build date of 3.7.44!

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

...but the supplementary question is, may we infer that the Mystery Blitz® now belongs to a certain Lithgow resident? Hmmm?

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
...but the supplementary question is, may we infer that the Mystery Blitz® now belongs to a certain Lithgow resident? Hmmm?

NO! THAT would be wishful thinking!

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
...but the supplementary question is............

My next question is for David Hayward, who may hopefully be able to shed some light on SM2201, a date perhaps? '42 or '44?

I can find no ARN on the truck, but as 3 points of ID seem to show that the truck is definately recorded as 3G19974F, it should be easy to find it in the AWM files to determine if it is registered as an F15 or F15A, but having a year to start would be very helpful!

[hrpearce]

Tony do you have a picture of the toolbox and spare wheel carrier, or can you point me to a clear picture? Robert.

[Tony Smith]

It's wedged between the rear of the cab and the body, so a clear shot isn't really possible on the vehicle. Here you can see the toolbox (with POL can brackets on the top):

[Tony Smith]

And a shot of the spare wheel carrier:

[Tony Smith]

Here's a naked 16" spare wheel carrier, without toolbox:

[hrpearce]

Thanks Tony that,s a big help Robert.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
NO! THAT would be wishful thinking!

Ferchrissakes Tony, stop whinging... just buy the damned thing and get it over with!

[cliff]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Ferchrissakes Tony, stop whinging... just buy the damned thing and get it over with!

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Despite this appearing for all intents and purposes an untouched, original F15 4x2, the Data Plate describes this truck as being an F15A 4x4!! Even shows the parts book as being F15A-01! Right plate, as it the Engine Number is listed as 3G19974F.

Another, but lesser mystery, is that the truck is shown as a '42 truck with a build date of 3.7.44!

Very interesting, Tony I have seen one other with the contract number and the date supports yours:

SM 2201 F15A441M 36830 F15A Cab 13 3G20006F 13.6.44 131527

The clue would appear to be the '421' in the data plate - could it be someone stuffed up and stamped an 'A' in there - because it is still stamped as '421' despite the 'A' and parts book reference.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Sorry, not noticed this one! This is the missing Demand in the 1942 series:

SM 2200 Ford Model Number ? C29T? for Australia 3-ton 4 x 2 134”
>SM 2201 15 cwt 4 x 4 Ford F291WQ<
SM 2202 15-CWT. 4 X 4 CHASSIS
SM 2203 3-TON 4 X 4 158” W.B. C.60L?
SM 2204 3-TON 4 X 4 158” W.B. C298QF E.g. # 3G42680 built 3/1/44
SM 2205 3-TON 4 X 4 158” W.B. F.60L OR C.60L
SM 2206 F.A.T. 3-TON 4 X 4 101” W.B. FORD AUSTRALIAN DESIGN NO. 8 C291Q

So that all makes sense!

[Keith Webb]

SM 2508 F.A.T. 3-TON 4 X 4 101” W.B. FORD No. 9 (Aust) C291Q.

Did you have that one?

[aj.lec]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Here's a naked 16" spare wheel carrier, without toolbox:

could some one post the actual measurements of components enough to build one ?
thanks

[Plushy]

Tony please tell me you are going to buy it ? i would love to add that to my collection

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
Very interesting, Tony I have seen one other with the contract number and the date supports yours:

SM 2201 F15A441M 36830 F15A Cab 13 3G20006F 13.6.44 131527

The clue would appear to be the '421' in the data plate - could it be someone stuffed up and stamped an 'A' in there - because it is still stamped as '421' despite the 'A' and parts book reference.

Now that's an interesting thought. Under the bonnet of this truck is the faded paint showing the model/ year, faded to xxx?/1942, so I presumed that the data plate stamping was F15A 42, but there could also be something else there that's less distinct.

I had a look at some other Aust Data Plates from the same period, and yes some dingbat from Ford is adding a supplementary code. These plates are from 1 Army truck and 1 RAAF truck, so they are blameless in this instance.

"F60S 444" and "F60L 448". These are an abbreviation of the Canadian DND codes F-60444-M and F-60448-M.

The plate on the truck in this thread though still has an element of mystery, as it definately appears to be F15A421.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Yes thanks I did Keith!

[Keith Webb]

Well slightly anyway.

I had a good look at the data plate pic from 36830 and see it is the same as Tony's example in that it is marked as a F15A but instead of 441 it has 421!

A bit indistinct but here it is... unfortunately it was a cab without a chassis.

[Tony Smith]

So, two trucks from contract SM2201 with close serial and engine numbers, both marked as F15A 421, with the 421 being an abbreviation for F-15421-M, a 4x2 15cwt. At least ONE of these vehicles is plainly an F15 4x2, possibly both, yet they are plated as F15A. Keith, your ARN is a good start point for further research.

Serial 36772, engine 3G19974F, build date 3.7.44
Serial 36830, engine 3G20006F, build date 13.6.44

Keith, your data plate is from ARN 131527. I note that MC's old F15 was ARN 131545. Do we have further details of that vehicle? I would hazard that it is broadly in the same range as these two and that your cab is also from an F15 4x2.

[Keith Webb]

I don't recall whether it had it's original data plates and of course he sold it some time ago - but it may have had the same mis-stamped data plate too.

Fascinating stuff, eh?

[cliff]

Maybe like the Chevs, CKD and/or crates of parts arrived quicker then they could be assembled so while it is truely a 1942 model it may have sat crated until 1944. I have AWM photos of crates of Chevs still staked up in 1946/47.

The other may be that while they were originally factory built (or designed) as 4X4 Ford was short of front axles for some reason (maybe a ship sank) and used spare 'I' beam axles to make them complete vehicles.

Just my 5cents worth.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by cliff
.... I have AWM photos of crates of Chevs still stacked up in 1946/47.

Cliff, that's because Chevs were so reliable they never broke down, and therefore there was little call for all those replacement vehicles. Fords, of course, they couldn't get enough of.

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by cliff
The other may be that while they were originally factory built (or designed) as 4X4 Ford was short of front axles for some reason (maybe a ship sank) and used spare 'I' beam axles to make them complete vehicles.

Just my 5cents worth.

The F15 chassis was different in the spring hangars, front shockers as well as the gearbox cross member so once riveted together could not have been intended as anything else.

[cliff]

Thanks Keith I should have remembered that. I see Tony has not told us yet if he is going to buy this one