military bridging

[Les Freathy]

I thought my RE book on bridging would tell me where this bridge was built especially as it has a couple of features such as the wrecked barge in the forgound and the large names or adverts on the distant building but no such luck so who has any details. I think its a class 40 bridge
cheers
Les

[MicS]

Hello Les,

What a beautiful image!

I always love seeing new (to me!) photos of Crabs, and this one is reallly nice.

Looking at it, I was feeling that the hills in the background, the buildings, quays and barge had a definite "Seine" flavour to them. Then a tiny bell rang somewhere in the back of my head, and prompted me to check the Lothians War Diary and, sure enough, here it was (from War Diary 'A' Sqn 1 Lothians & Border Yeomanry):


"28 Aug [1944]
The Sqn crossed the Seine at Elbeuf behind the armd bde, highly organised with marshalling areas etc and the bridge - a Bailey single tier on pontoons - quite easy for us. We harboured in the valley on the East bank and were engaged by sporadic mortar and 88mm shellfire, not to forget tempestuous rain."


No sign of "tempestuous rain" on the photo (it probably came during the evening), but the description of the bridge certainly fits.

Then I looked up Elbeuf on GoogleEarth, but no luck, nothing recognizable as no old buildings remained.

So I resorted to one of my favorite time machines, an invaluable website which seems to have old postcards about every single hamlet in France, and yielded literally THOUSANDS on Elbeuf alone:
https://www.delcampe.fr/fr/collectio...earch_mode=all

And bingo! This is indeed Elbeuf! The pontoon bridge was built just a few yards downstream of the old suspension bridge, which had been destroyed by then (I took the liberty of posting Les' photo again for easier comparison):




A postwar photo this time, shot from nearly the same angle, but from further back and much higher up: an oblique aerial view of the new suspension bridge ("Pont Guynemer") which replaced the old one. The various buildings are clearly visible:


Back to prewar postcards, here's a view from the bridge itself. The corner house on the right is the one just right of the bridge pile on the previous postcard:


Still from the East bank, but from the right side of the bridge (just right or downstream of the above 2 pics): the photographer's location is more or less where the pontoon bridge lands:


Another view, from further upstream (left) this time, still from the same side (East bank) of the river. The wooden posts around the middle of the pontoon bridge seem to correspond with the centre pile of the old suspension bridge:


The areas to the left and to the right of the bridge on the West bank (the far bank on the above photos) are the quays of Elbeuf ("Le Port"), were the Seine barges loaded or unloaded their goods. Here's a close up of "Le Port" (the large house on the left is the one with the "St Raphaël" advert, and the white building with the chimney to the right is one of the textile dyeing works):


The dyeworks and their chimneys:


Here's a view from the West bank. The photographer of the pontoon bridge took the shot from the opposite bank, probably perched on the ruins of the old suspension bridge pile there. The pontoon bridge started from the stairs on the left foreground of the photo (where a couple of boats are tied):


A general view of the quays and bridge from upstream on the West bank. The dyeworks can be seen just beyond the bridge pile on the left:


Les, do you have a higher resolution version of your photo, where perhaps we can see the Crabs better?

Michel Sabarly

[Tim Bell]

Originally Posted by MicS

Hello Les,

What a beautiful image!

I always love seeing new (to me!) photos of Crabs, and this one is reallly nice.

snip..


Les, do you have a higher resolution version of your photo, where perhaps we can see the Crabs better?

Michel Sabarly

Michel

I have an original copy of the First Edition of the Sherman Crab Instruction Book - have you seen this? If not, am happy to post some photos from it.

Let me know

Tim

[rob.c]

Hello everybody! I'm looking for information about Bailey Mk.II bridges, that should mean "original" British materiel and not US M1/M2 types. There is one still "living", in use since the 50s or 60s in my whereabouts in Italy. I still have to take measurements and pictures, though I've been driving on this bridge for decades - maybe I always took it for granted as I was used to it since my childhood - but now I want to research its story in depth.

At first I thought it was standard US/NATO issue, which was also widely employed by the Italian Army in those years, but the width doesn't seem to fit and the markings on it are clearly British and not US. So maybe it was really "WW2 surplus" when it was fitted, or the Italian Army had manuals describing the M1A/M2 but actually had in use also the British version.

I have been unable to locate detailed information and drawings, apart from a couple web articles etc., mostly regarding the US version: is anybody able to provide scans or links to publications? I guess there was some official manual in the British Army, like the FM 5-227 for the US Army...

[motto (RIP)]

In the photo Michel posted of the bridge at Elbeuf (post 162). What is the tracked vehicle in the left foreground with the engine covers open?
It looks a little strange.

David

[MicS]

Originally Posted by motto

In the photo Michel posted of the bridge at Elbeuf (post 162). What is the tracked vehicle in the left foreground with the engine covers open?
It looks a little strange.

David

That's a German Sd.Kfz 251/D Armoured Personnel Carrier half-track.

Michel

[motto (RIP)]

Thanks Michel, maybe it's the angle from which the photo was taken but I couldn't work out what it was. The onlookers must be obscuring the front wheel.

David

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Michel,
This is a wealth of information, with some magnificent photos. Thank you for taking the trouble to post.

Is that one of the four seat Bofors Blitz crossing behind the Jeep??
Rich.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Crass, self-serving, commercial, message follows;

John Sliz has authored three booklets on Engineer bridging that may be of interest to the membership;



Available from www.servicepub.com/weapons.html

[MicS]

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

Is that one of the four seat Bofors Blitz crossing behind the Jeep??
Rich.

Sorry, can't help you as I know next to nothing about SP AA . All I can say is that the markings show the 51 (Highland) Div 'HD' emblem, and that the AoS number on the right should read '47', for 40 LAA Regt.

[Bob Carriere]

Are my eyes deceiving me...... I realize the pictures are grainy but.....

The wooden decking on the bridge seems to be getting more and more worn/chewed up by the traffic...... no doubt the tank tracks must have been nasty to a wooden deck....... early pictures seem to show moderate wear with a reasonable intact middle section....later pictures the centre unworn section is very narrow......

Would the deck beams need to be replaced often......???


If the instruction sign for constant first gear speed was respected the CMP vehicle speed must have been about the pace kept by an infantry man ...approx... 3 mph.....????? and slower for a tank..?

Thanks for posting.

[Les Freathy]

Michel better late than never here is a close up of the crab tank on the bridge i hope it provides details you are looking for
cheers
Les

[MicS]

Les,

Thanks a lot for posting this close-up. The turret number '21' is consistent with 'A' Squadron, and would make this tank part of 2 Troop 'A' Sqn 1 Lothians.

Other markings are not readable but could include the AoS number '52', the tank name and T-number, plus maybe some loading code:



The name of the tank should be one of these four, since No.20 was RHODERICK DHU T212645, see http://proxy.handle.net/10648/ac053d...8-003048976d84

ROB ROY
RED DOUGLAS
RED COMYN
RED TOD

Maybe the name could be guessed if the original photo is a good print and could be further enlarged ?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by MicS

The turret number '21' is consistent with 'A' Squadron, and would make this tank part of 2 Troop 'A' Sqn 1 Lothians.

Other markings are not readable but could include the AoS number '52', the tank name and T-number, plus maybe some loading code:

14410266554_73a60edb8d_o.jpg

The name of the tank should be one of these four, since No.20 was RHODERICK DHU T212645, see http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/afbe...rm/00011000125

Michel,

The link you provided above is dead, but possibly it pointed to the attached picture of Sherman Crab T-212645 RHODERICK DHU after it met its demise at Westkapelle, The Netherlands, during Operation Infatuate II in November 1944.

HTH,
Hanno

af7211829b5d7052d84771d886ea3d3aa16bca93f04f7e68ac560012dac7a40f.jpg
Source: http://proxy.handle.net/10648/ac053d...8-003048976d84

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by MicS

Thanks a lot for posting this close-up. The turret number '21' is consistent with 'A' Squadron, and would make this tank part of 2 Troop 'A' Sqn 1 Lothians.

Other markings are not readable but could include the AoS number '52', the tank name and T-number, plus maybe some loading code:

The name of the tank should be one of these four, since No.20 was RHODERICK DHU T212645, see http://proxy.handle.net/10648/ac053d...8-003048976d84

ROB ROY
RED DOUGLAS
RED COMYN
RED TOD

Hello Michel,

As I saw you reference to a Sherman Crab named "ROB ROY", I attched a picture of "ROB ROY IV" taken during a demonstration in the Netherlands shortly after WW2:

gahetna.nl_344024_022_Sherman Crab_Rob Roy IV.jpg

Source: http://proxy.handle.net/10648/5a4e3b...1-46ae0266c1e9

[MicS]

Hello Les,

As ever looking for more Crab pictures, I stumbled upon what is certainly a large scan of yours here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6738464...n/photostream/

Here's an extract that shows that with a very high probability it must have been named RED COMYN, as the other three possible names (ROB ROY, RED DOUGLAS and RED TOD) do not fit, wheras the first letter after what does resemble the word 'RED' looks very much like a 'C', and the length and shape of the second word look just about right for 'COMYN':



There is however a measure of doubt remaining, as 1 Lothians tank names were normally painted (red with a white shadowing) on the hull sides, but there seems to have been exceptions such as (possibly) 'COEUR DE LION', painted on the flail jibs because the various stowage items would have obscured them if painted on the hull.

The Arm of Service number 52 (white over red square) is clearly recognizable on the front of the jib (with the yellow circle of the bridging class below), and can be guessed on its other customary location in 1 Lothians on the top right corner of the hull front plate.

Crossing a Bailey bridge with a Crab was visibly a precision job, with a very watchful crew member each side assisting the driver, and the other two guys seemingly enjoying the view but probably ready to jump off any moment!

Many thanks for this hi res scan, which brings one more match between tank number and tank name in one of my favourite units!

Michel

[MicS]

I came across this photo at Belgian image bank Pallas Cegesoma (http://pallas.cegesoma.be/pls/opac/p...neral/opac.htm). Link to the photo:
http://pallas.cegesoma.be/pls/opac/o...&rqdb=1&dbnu=1

I include the photo here as well in case the above link becomes obsolete:



From the caption it looks like it's part of the Canadian collection.

I wonder if the "thing" in the water to the right of the bridge (top right of photo) might be the remnant of one of the destroyed bridge piles? It is visible on some of the other photos as well.

Michel

[Lang]

I just got back from driving through NE India. Went up from Imphal to the Burma border. The crossing between India and Burma/Myanmar is a serious Bailey bridge - a triple triple (three wide by three high). Although span has a lot to do with the bridge composition this is not particularly long and I think it could carry just about any modern day heavy truck.