Which Conflicts Have CMPs Taken Part In?

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

I was just wondering what was the first Combat that a CMP was involved in and what was the last?

Yes, the simple answer is WWII, other than that when and where?

Also can we show photo documentation?

In a separate thread (which I will leave to one of our Carrier aficionado to start) question about Carriers?

Cheers Phil

[Mike Cecil]

Phil,

The 'first and last' may be more difficult than we imagine. The first may be reasonably easy (WW2), but the last combat that CMPs were involved in could be tricky. CMPs were present in Korea, and there are images of CMP 15cwt armoured trucks in South Vietnamese service in the early 1960s. That's without getting into detail about the Israeli conversions, and the 'little wars' around South Africa and on the Indian sub-continent. Haven't looked into Malaya, but that's another (late) possibility.

Mike C

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

The 'first and last' may be more difficult than we imagine. The first may be reasonably easy (WW2)

Yes, but when in WW2? It's less easy than most people envisage....

But thanks to the extensive research conducted through MLU, we know when CMPs were first used in action.

HTH,
Hanno

[Mike Cecil]

Well, if you are a member of the British Commonwealth, WW2 is September 1939 to August (or is it September? need to check...) 1945, the officially accepted 'contact' period. And Canada, the home of the CMP, was a member of the Commonwealth. The previous thread to which you refer does answer the first combat use of CMPs question in great detail, so that parts done and dusted.

What about the last use: any thoughts? SVN in the 1960s might be a good starting point. Any advances on that time period?

Mike C

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

What about the last use: any thoughts? SVN in the 1960s might be a good starting point. Any advances on that time period?

See my article on C15TA armoured truck: these were used post war in many conflicts like Korea, Malaysian emergency, by the Spanish in the Sahara and the Vietnam war.
The Lynx was used in the latter war, too. After the Vietnam war info becomes pretty scarce, though.

Hanno

[Ed Storey]

How about the 1st Canadian Infantry Division's 1st Canadian Infantry Brigade's foray into France in June 1940 as the first use of CMPs in combat?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

How about the 1st Canadian Infantry Division's 1st Canadian Infantry Brigade's foray into France in June 1940 as the first use of CMPs in combat?

Ed, that's correct - see my link to when CMPs were first used in action in my posting above.

Hanno

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

OK we have made a start, as you post them I'll edit this list, buts lets try and provide the documentary photos of CMPs as well and a time frame.

WWII 19??-1945 Apparently all theaters See action: June 1940, France
Israel War of Independence 1948 See Armoured CMP, Israel 1948
Korean War 1950-1953
Indo China (French) 1949-1954 Likely but no photos yet
Vietnam (US & Allies) 1955-1975 Likely but not photos yet - Picture of Lynx Scout Car II (Mk.3)

Cheers Phil

PS-How do you copy the Thread Name with Link? Thanks Hanno got it

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

PS-How do you copy the Thread Name with Link?

Go to thread, copy and paste the title, e.g.: Which Conflicts Have CMPs Taken Part In?

Then copy the URL: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=21092

Then select the title Which Conflicts Have CMPs Taken Part In? by going over it with your left mouse and press the "Insert Link" icon above.

Then paste the URL in the hyperlink pop-up screen. This is the result: Which Conflicts Have CMPs Taken Part In?

(Will move this to the MLU admin section later. Hyperlinking is an important feature, it is one of the the main user functions on the internet.)

HTH,
Hanno

[David Dunlop]

Would the Belgian Congo and Suez Crisis of the 1950's had CMP's involved? There is also the possibility of the early conflicts between India and Pakistan.

David

[lynx42]

According to the book 'Armor in Vietnam' by Jim Mesko (IBSN 0-89747-126-1) At least one Lynx Scout Car II (Mk.3),was used in Vietnam after the first M-113 APC were introduced in 1962. the caption is certainly wrong but we see it many times in many books where the Dingo and the Lynx are mixed up.

Attached is a photo from the U.S.Army showing the Lynx and an M=113 in Vietnam after 1962.

I see that it is a late production with the upgraded axles. It has 8 stud wheels not 6 studs.



I have received permission from the Publishing Company for the OK to reproduce this photo.

Please credit “Courtesy of Squadron Signal Publications” and we retain all rights, trademarks, etc., of the picture

[Edwin Wand]

A friend served in Indonesia with the Dutch Army immediately after the war. At the time the Japanese were acting as civil police. His section used a Chev 15cwt as a radio truck with a 19 set.

[chris vickery]

It may be possible as late as the 70s or even 80s with the Indo-Pakistan conflict.
I do recall seeing a picture of 25pdr and No.27 limbers in service with the Indian army during this time frame.

[Lang]

I saw a CMP in Burma in March this year with regular army soldiers in the back (saw lots in the 90's still in Burmese service). They are engaged in a very real shooting conflict still with the Katchin and other rebels so I suppose the "last" is still to come after more than 70 years.

Lang

[Stuart Kirkham]

Malaysia 1951.

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/ma...-Commando.html

[sapper740]

Not military, but this pic shows a CMP/bus conversion in S.E. Asia 1964.

[Marc Montgomery]

In cleaning old papers, I came across a note I myself had scribbled saying the last CMP to come off the line was a C8a in Aug 1945..

Dont know why, or how I wrote that line, or where I might have obtained that info...but is this correct?

[David Dunlop]

Quite possible, Marc. For certain, GM was pushing out the last of a British contract for 1C11 bodied C8A's - July through September 1945 - at Oshawa. Don't know if anything else was being run at that time. I suspect GM finished vehicle orders first, spare parts commitments second and then sat on their thumbs until C.D. Howe gave the OK for them to retool for civilian production again. Not sure when that officially restarted in Canada at GM.

Holden may have seen a similar process in Australia.

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Marc Montgomery

In cleaning old papers, I came across a note I myself had scribbled saying the last CMP to come off the line was a C8a in Aug 1945..

Dont know why, or how I wrote that line, or where I might have obtained that info...but is this correct?

Don't know about C8A's, but I do know the latest-built CMP I ever saw was this Ford "F22" which was built on 12 November 1945. It is still alive and well in the hands of one of MLU's members.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Marc Montgomery

In cleaning old papers, I came across a note I myself had scribbled saying the last CMP to come off the line was a C8a in Aug 1945..

Dont know why, or how I wrote that line, or where I might have obtained that info...but is this correct?

Here's a Chevrolet data plate fitting your notes: C60L APT built on "AUG-22-45"

[João Freitas]

I am new at this forum, congratulations to all
Lots of CMPs are used by the portuguese army before and specialy during the colonial wars in Africa (Angola Mozambique and Guinea) 1961/1974.
After that many are sold to tree cutters, for work in the forrests. All have their original engines changed to diesel ex. Perkins.
Now only a small bunch (10?) survive, and on very sorow condition

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi

Israel 1947:


http://www.warwheels.net/Review_Book...ACsKeenan.html

Indonesia 1948:



http://oldindonesianvehicles.blogspo...ern-30cwt.html

and this pic of Portugese CMPs apparently come from this Forum:



https://www.pinterest.com/pin/415034921884734131/

regards
Darrell

[Ed Storey]

I happened to spot this C15TA image in Episode 2 of Ken Burn's Vietnam War series on PBS.

[Rich Payne]

Belgian miner's strike, Zwartberg 1966. There were two shot dead by the Rijkswacht who abandoned their Chevrolet and a Minerva Land-Rover to the mob so I think it counts as action !

[David Walmsley]

Tokyo Police Dept had some FGT's as riot control vehicles (A Corgi toy model was made of these if any one is interested) and Hong Kong base workshops converted some 15cwt trucks to 4.2 mortar tractors (presumably for Malaya). One of these turned up at W&P some years ago but I have not seen it recently. I hope no-one converted this to an FGT.

I believe the dates for these is the 1950's

[Ed Storey]

Here is another image of a Canadian Lynx in Vietnam which was published in a 1970s AFV/Weapons Profile, No. 40 U.S. Armoured Cars.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Although this was offered as an “Orig Foto 2WK Beute LKW - 100% Original!" photo, the markings made me think it was not WW2 and not German.

Martijn IJdo found out that the badge on the door was used by the French Foreign Legion 16th Engineer Maintenance Company (16e CEG) from 1952 onwards. Their main task was to support French troops during the First Indochina War (1946-54).


Source: https://www.ebay.com/itm/363320558219 and http://foreignlegion.info/units/16th...nance-company/

[Ilian Filipov]

Hi Hanno,
And thanks for that! I collect such descriptions from years because when it comes to trucks ID the Evil bay "experts" are second to none. However, I can't get which exactly is "Sd Kfz" - Matador or CMP?