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#1
28-07-09, 03:25
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Sometime Ya Gotta Laugh
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$? 
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#2
07-08-09, 02:54
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Some Activity at the Barn
Not too much to report:
Bob is spending the remainder of his vacation splitting wood. Grant is busy with his Mr. Manual duties. Guy was away watching oversized kettles boil. So I had the barn all to my self. After a quick brake bleed, a lube job and oil change, I moved the HUP out of the barn and back into it's shelter - which has dried out somewhat after our prolonged monsoon season here in Ottawa. I posted a poor video on photobucket (http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r...SummerTest.flv). You should notice a squeaking sound when I shift gears - that is the clutch pedal rubbing the foot plate which is just wired into place. As well, there is a grinding noise when I first move her out into the sun - that is the starter shifter knob wobbling around. The starter is causing some issues - if the knob is too far forward, the gears engage. Too far backwards and the grinding occurs. I hope that a thin spacer between the starter housing and the bell housing will fix this annoying problem - any other suggestions?
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$? Last edited by RHClarke; 07-08-09 at 03:19.
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#3
07-08-09, 03:26
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Nice video......
On the screeching/sparking starter drive......
I would like to compare the linkage to the other HUP hulks you have to see what differences we can observe....... From by brief look at the prototype..... it seems your starter lever to be too far back when disengaged...... ......also to be remembered..... we ran the engine before and did not have that problem........ ...maybe something let go inside the drive mechanism of the starter.... we have other 216 starters to compare with....... it seems to me that the starter drive has a coil spring that holds the gear retracted..... the spring tension is overcome by the lever pulling and the starter torque when power is applied........ but that spring may have let go.... and allows the gear to be easily nudged forward grinding on the flywheel.... I am almost sure we need to pull the starter to check it out.... ....will do a two some..... I need to pull mine to install the new brushes and the new top mounted switch...... also have a new fork to install as the one presently on has flat spots on the swivel pins..... Will get it sorted you...... Boob
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#4
17-08-09, 16:59
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Start me (h)up!
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#5
17-08-09, 17:25
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Hot times at the hammond barn
Saturday: 32oC - Bob and I spent the first part of the morning splitting and stacking wood. Then it got too damned hot. So, we retired to the barn, swapped out a starter and fiddled around with various bits and pieces of CMP history.
After reinstalling the HUP starter, I took the old girl for a short run. Bob looked like he wanted to give the HUP a try, so I offered him the opportunity. Little did I know that we would be going on a road trip! Bob took the HUP cross country to the big field where we bounced along the real estate in fine style. We had an issue with shifting, but found that the lock out lever had to be in a special location on the shift lever in order to let us shift gears - keep in mind that the HUP had only been driven in first and reverse to this point, so it was a bit of an educational process for us... After 20 minutes of joy riding, I drove the HUP back to the barn (got up to third gear no less!). The Metal Mistress rode smoothly and handled quite well! Some lessons learned: - lock out lever position is critical; - CMPs do not possess power steering; - 30kph in a CMP is FAST! - CMPs are thirsty bastards; and most importantly - Bob liked driving the HUP. The day ended with a beer and the realization that Bob is the second most experienced HUP driver in Eastern Ontario. Sunday: 32oC+ overcast. Grant joined the party. The early morning was spent loading the trailer with the scrap firewood, which will be fed to Lucifer when Ottawa freezes again. Bob and his neighbour Bruce, joined us for a wood splitting and stacking morning. I spent the time with the weed-whacker knocking down the jungle that sprouted over the rainy season (April-mid August). After lunch, we mounted the front clip onto the HUP. It really made the truck look good!  I took the truck for a ride in the back field and made some new trails thru the swamp maples...After a short trip, I headed back to the barn. My starter started to smoke so I shut the HUP down by removing the battery lead - which was friggin hot! Next time I'll use my gloves... Back to the barn I went, where Bob and Grant were adjusting the plugs on Bob's truck. Bob fired up his CMP and towed the HUP back to the barn, whilst giggling about HUPs and their "personalities". As a lark, we compared the 20 in tires to the 16 in tires on the HUP - they might fit:  After swapping out the starter, I took another test ride and most things worked well. I had an issue with the auto choke on the Rocky B carb, but Grant came to the rescue with a new clip. Next challenge is to fix the accelerator linkage. Bob took his truck out for a spin and ended walking back for a recovery mission. I smiled at the irony...  Bob did a fast diagnosis and it looks like there is a problem with the transfer case/transmission/linkage, which means there will be a tear down this week coming...Bob in his office:  All too soon, the end of the day approached. Bob, Grant and I cleaned up the barn, put the trucks away and sat down for a beer in the shade. It must have been really hot, as the beer disappeared really fast... It was a great weekend at the Hammond barn despite the setbacks.
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$? Last edited by RHClarke; 21-08-09 at 03:45.
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#6
18-08-09, 05:58
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Quote:
Say, you don't have a spare set of shock links and a rear/side door on any of those HUPs you picked up, do you? Cheers MP
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Member: Prairie Command, Ex-Military Land Rover Association 2110, MVPA 29055 45 Chevrolet C8A CMP HUP Staff Car , 82 Land Rover Series III, 109" ex-MoD, 80 Honda CX500D, 48 Ferguson TE20
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#7
18-08-09, 20:13
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Shopping for hup parts
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I still have the upper divider frame for you. Some day I will get out your way, I just don't know when...in the meanwhile, I am looking forward to comparing notes with you on your 45 HUP. Cheers! P.S. No luck with your friendly farmer?
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#8
17-08-09, 17:37
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Questions and thoughs about starter
Hi Guys
Couple of questions and observations about the starter. 1. Does yours have the return spring on the linkage that pulls it all the way back when disengaged? Without this spring the starter drive can slide back and hit the ring gear. 2. Is the lever hitting anything when the starter is fully engaged? There should be a half to a full inch of travel in the lever once everything is engaged. There is spring on the start drive which allows for over travel and to be sure that the switch has over travel to insure full engagement. With out the over travel you can end up with the switch or drive not engaging fully. 3. Watch out for some of the aftermarket switches which do not have over travel spring, in which case the adjustment of the linkage becomes very important. 4. Dose your starter have a thrust washer at the flywheel end? 5. How many teeth does your starter have 9 or 10 and is this a match for your flywheel? Reason I'm asking all of these questions as I have just had to pull the starter out of Beauty, 261 engine with 216 flywheel and ring gear. Reason the starter drive first started making funny noises, and spinning without engaging immediately. Then spinning and not engaging. I'm using the original 6 volt 216 starter which worked fine until recently. From the sounds and poor speed spinning the engine I had suspected that starter was at fault. Beauty is set up with a battery selector switch so I can give the starter 6 volt or 12 volts from the radio battery. With the floor up and the brush band off I could see that the starter was turning but the engine wasn't. When I removed it and removed the drive unit I discovered that the drive unit, original to the truck 63 years old, which is a one way over ride clutch would no longer lock up completely. New drive ordered. Only difficulty with finding a new one was being sure that it was a 9 tooth to match the original. If you need pictures of the starter and linkage on another late 45 HUP let me know and I'll take up the floor plate on mine and take pictures. Cheers Phil
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Phil Waterman `41 C60L Pattern 12 `42 C60S Radio Pattern 13 `45 HUP http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/ New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
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#9
17-08-09, 20:09
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Reply from Bob......
Couple of questions and observations about the starter.
1. Does yours have the return spring on the linkage that pulls it all the way back when disengaged? Without this spring the starter drive can slide back and hit the ring gear.I installed an avaialble soft throttle spring and it seems to be holding the handle back out of the way. 2. Is the lever hitting anything when the starter is fully engaged? There should be a half to a full inch of travel in the lever once everything is engaged. There is spring on the start drive which allows for over travel and to be sure that the switch has over travel to insure full engagement. With out the over travel you can end up with the switch or drive not engaging fully.Seems most of the problem was in the bent starter backet and the handle...once straightened out they were fine.... 3. Watch out for some of the aftermarket switches which do not have over travel spring, in which case the adjustment of the linkage becomes very important.We rebuild an old starter and that one worked but seemed to draw current like an old toaster.........actually the saem switch was used/swapped between the toaster and the good one 4. Dose your starter have a thrust washer at the flywheel end?The old toaster one did not the replacement he installed back in place at the end of Sunday di have the washers.... on a positive note....Rob can now remove and reinstall a starter inless than 30 minutes and that includes swapping the switch......... 5. How many teeth does your starter have 9 or 10 and is this a match for your flywheel?....Never did count the little suckers.... next time it breaksd own and Rob removes it we will count them.... probably in the next two weeks.... Reason I'm asking all of these questions as I have just had to pull the starter out of Beauty, 261 engine with 216 flywheel and ring gear. Reason the starter drive first started making funny noises, and spinning without engaging immediately. Then spinning and not engaging. I'm using the original 6 volt 216 starter which worked fine until recently. From the sounds and poor speed spinning the engine I had suspected that starter was at fault. Beauty is set up with a battery selector switch so I can give the starter 6 volt or 12 volts from the radio battery. With the floor up and the brush band off I could see that the starter was turning but the engine wasn't. When I removed it and removed the drive unit I discovered that the drive unit, original to the truck 63 years old, which is a one way over ride clutch would no longer lock up completely. New drive ordered. Only difficulty with finding a new one was being sure that it was a 9 tooth to match the original.Phil we have a bunch of old starters.... if you can't find one let us know... we can ship from UPS cheap in upper NY. If you need pictures of the starter and linkage on another late 45 HUP let me know and I'll take up the floor plate on mine and take pictures.
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada Last edited by Bob Carriere; 17-08-09 at 21:06.
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#10
17-08-09, 20:59
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Now on my own behalf......
Phil
Remember when we first took out my truck we had problems with the transfer case linkages and T case shifter jamming in the jimjam.... Well it did it again...... First of all my truck would not start.... no spark.... new coil seemed very very hot..... may have been fried even though I was using a ballast and bi pass for starting only..... so I gave up and went for the gusto.. I have been planing to convert to an electronic system any ways sooooo ... I have installed a "Pertronix system" on my 261 Chevrolet..... so if any one else is considering take note...... Pertronix instructions are very brief and simple....... installation is very brief and simple..... remove the condenser and points..... remove phenolic block that takes current through the wall of the dizzy. All the process is reversible. Install the magnetic pick up using the points pivot post and the screw that previously held the points in place..... pull the triggering wires through the hole left in the side of the dizzy body where you removed the phenolic spacer. Red wire on positive of the coil ....Black wire on negative of the coil....voila.. Pushdown the ferrite magnet ring over the lobed shaft.... install rotor and cap and fire up. If you sheet metal is removed or not yet installed it can be done in situ...otherwise it is best to remove the whole dizzy assembly. WHAT THE PERTRONIX DO NOT TELL YOU..... You have to set the gap on the magnet and pick up at .028 - .030 Plugs should be regapped at .040 to .045.... to take advantage of the extra voltage...also runs better... .............................I opted for the conservative .040 Recommend you use the Pertronix 40,000 volts coil which is internal resistor and you will not worry with a ballast..... Those are not my discoveries but gleaned by reading other peoples' posting on the web and taking advantage of hours of frustrations expereinced by others..... Engine started right up..... rough idle.... and smoking blue smoke which it had never done before....ran rich but not blue.... Changed the plugs to new AC 45 gapped at .040..... 90% of smoke disappeared...... runs like the devil...... still a slight stumble at idle..... need to tweak the timing...... We actually started the engine with the dizzy mounted loose so that while Grant was cranking the starter I rotated the dizzy until it fired and ran smooth...... real exotic timing process....... re adjusted the carb idel jet screw and tweaked the dizzy by hand to get best smooth idle. ....and clamped it down. I could not for the love of God see the white mark on the flywheel.... even checked to see if the white paint was still visible...... timing light did not seem to flash bright enough...... may the direct sunlight messed things up so we will do it again inside the shady barn. So far I am very pleased with the conversion......... will tweak later. So the running engine was begging for a spin on the road..... remember no lights, no license, no insurance, no fun...... went like a banshee up to fourth gear in low range into the field...... where I had to slow down as it bounced to much...... U turn back on the road I shifted the Tcase from low range to high range....... was doing well in first....smooth crash in second and...... and...... when third gear engaged..... something let go in the transfer case and was left powerless in the middle of the road with Sunday drivers slowing down to look....... So I let her roll backward onto the shoulder and ditch and screemed for help..... Rotters to the rescue. We pulled it back to the barn with the tractor...... at first look the Tcase shifting handle was jammed and the t case was in neutral ....... We now understand that the high / low range lever may need adjustment to keep it from popping out.....because when it does pop out it jams the shifter lever and can only be corrected by removing the shiter lever (two bolts) and moving the shifting rods by hand using a very long screw driver. Now for the headache...... to properly adjust the Tcase hi/lo range rod I will need to remove the floor plates and possibly drop the t case...... the shifting rod is designed so that it must be disconnected and rotated on itself to screw in or out for adjustment..... the linkage is NOT designed to allow disconnecting the shifting rods and do an adjustment in place...... &&%#**@ We will no doubt spend a whole weekend understanding how to do it...do it... and test it. At this point we have one side of the truck on jack stands which helps us to rotate the drivetrain to facilitate the shifting diagnostics...... we will no doubt verify the 4x4 linkage and winch/PTO while we are deep in this process. The MB-C2 is of some help but cannot overcome the design nightmare of the machine itself..... All in fun they say ...! Will keep you posted of our findings. Any comments/suggestions from other Pertronix user are welcomed
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada Last edited by Bob Carriere; 17-08-09 at 21:13.
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