JEEP willy's help

[Speedy]

have a chance at a willys jeep, its not military but since the civilian's are similar, I am hoping for some advice. (or is it military?)

I was hoping to get something that is running and military that is street legal.

what is needed to get one of these running?
what civi model is this?

since their is no ownership this will need to be used for a bush runner.

here are some pics.
let me know what your thoughts are.

[NORTH-SHORE(CANADA)]

Hi,
What military jeep you want to do??? ww2 or M38 ???

[cletrac (RIP)]

It looks like a CJ2A, 1947 to 1949. Check this site out.http://www.thecj2apage.com/history.html

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by NORTH-SHORE(CANADA)

Hi,
What military jeep you want to do??? ww2 or M38 ???

I am open to any aslong as its military with a title to license on the road and is a solid base to start a restoration with no cancer rot.

cletrac
thanks will check it out.

* edit.
am I overlooking a procedure that might be able to get me on the road?

[Speedy]

so I started thinking and was wondering how someone would go about getting a rat rod licensed? since its bits and pieces put together wouldnt it be the same issue I am in at the end?

anyways, the CJ2A should be in my possession tomorrow. will keep you updated, never know a scrap metal guy or someone else can swipe it from me while I am at school!

[maple_leaf_eh]

There are any number of automobile appraisers in Ontario who can help you with licencing. The bill of sale is the starting document. Then they establish a value so it can be registered with the province as unfit, but at least your name on the ownership. The appraiser will also verify its' roadworthiness when you are done rebuilding. If if has the right lights, brakes, handbrake, horn, defroster etc, it is really no different than any of the hotrods seen on cruising night. Good luck!

[Paul Singleton]

Originally Posted by Speedy

so I started thinking and was wondering how someone would go about getting a rat rod licensed?

I have done this several times. If the Jeep still has the plate attached with the serial number it is easy.

Take a picture of the plate showing the serial number.

Go to the license office and ask for a dealer appraisal form.

Go to a licensed car dealer. Used car dealer or new, doesn't matter, but the person must have an Ontario dealer number. Have him fill out the appraisal sheet to give a dollar value for the vehicle. This is what you will be paying tax on.

Now you will need to find a commissioner of oaths. Some license offices have them on staff, you can call and ask. Swear under oath that you are the true legal owner of the vehicle and take the legal document to the ministry and they will print you an ownership.

The office I use here has a Commisioner of Oaths on staff and with tax and charges it cost about $150 to get title to my truck. The cost will vary depending on the value given on the appraisal

[Speedy]

its in my driveway!
pictures on a sunny day.

its going to be a project, big project

the ministry employee says it can be titled and on the road easy so thats a relief.

[Speedy]

does anyone know how to open up the tool box under the passenger seat?
I am hoping the tags are in their, its a long shot but who knows.

[Speedy]

engine is stubborn.
took the rad off and grill
better access to the nut to spin the engine over.

and I think I fell in love with this.
http://s80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...achjeep084.jpg

[maple_leaf_eh]

Speedy:

First thing tomorrow go to the Emergency Clinic and get a vaccination shot against, "Green Disease". The staff will look at you funny, but explain that you have been bitten by an incurable ailment to locate, chat, scout, buy and promptly disassemble old army vehicles. They will laugh, but be patient. The cure is still unknown, but its has consequences beyond belief. Fortunately, in Ontario the medicare system has an obligation to provide essential care to all residents.

[Speedy]

its to far, I had an exam and couldn't get a vaccination, now green disease has settled in.

I need to get this thing going to meet up with other addicts

[Lynn Eades]

Well most of us here are "registered users"

[Scrivo18]

The green machine sickness is certainly world wide, the best side effect is the wonderfull people that you meet.

Tim

[Speedy]

thanks guys

should have a visitor that restored a mb coming over to give me advice and see what I have.

I think the engines head needs to come off, I dont want to get to ahead of myself as I am new to vehicles. if I take the head off, what should I do if I take the head off?
still soak the cylinders? then try breaking them free?

or do you think I should continue soaking the cylinders with the head on by pouring diesel into the spark plug holes and wait? and avoid taking the head off all together?

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Speedy

thanks guys

should have a visitor that restored a mb coming over to give me advice and see what I have.

I think the engines head needs to come off, I dont want to get to ahead of myself as I am new to vehicles. if I take the head off, what should I do if I take the head off?
still soak the cylinders? then try breaking them free?

or do you think I should continue soaking the cylinders with the head on by pouring diesel into the spark plug holes and wait? and avoid taking the head off all together?

If the pistons are frozen then the chances are good that the valve train is too. You'd best remove the head, inspect it and the valves for damage/pitting, then soak the cylinders until you can hand-crank the engine. Don't overdo the force in hand cranking as you'll risk damaging stuck valves as well. Once everything is moving, you can have a good look at the cylinder walls and decide at that point whether it might be better pulling the engine and sending it out for a rebuild... which may well be what's needed; if there's damage in the upper end, it's most likely the crank needs inspecting/grinding/new bearings as well. Better to do it now while you're in rebuild-mode!

Geoff

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

If the pistons are frozen then the chances are good that the valve train is too. You'd best remove the head, inspect it and the valves for damage/pitting, then soak the cylinders until you can hand-crank the engine. Don't overdo the force in hand cranking as you'll risk damaging stuck valves as well. Once everything is moving, you can have a good look at the cylinder walls and decide at that point whether it might be better pulling the engine and sending it out for a rebuild... which may well be what's needed; if there's damage in the upper end, it's most likely the crank needs inspecting/grinding/new bearings as well. Better to do it now while you're in rebuild-mode!

Geoff

hi Geoff.

that is what I was worried about, if the pistons are stuck, the valves may be also, and if I start the engine it may backfire allot and possibly create more damage.

I think I can do all the labour of tearing down assembling the engine, and leave the machining to the engine guys.

I guess it would be good to get hardened valve seats in the engine at that point.

I am sure allot of guys here have redone their engines, does anyone have a idea of what it can cost me?

and lastly, anyone have an idea of how I should plan out my attack to re doing this vehicle?
would the engine be last? drivetrain first? then body?

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Speedy

hi Geoff.

that is what I was worried about, if the pistons are stuck, the valves may be also, and if I start the engine it may backfire allot and possibly create more damage.

I think I can do all the labour of tearing down assembling the engine, and leave the machining to the engine guys.

I guess it would be good to get hardened valve seats in the engine at that point.

I am sure allot of guys here have redone their engines, does anyone have a idea of what it can cost me?

and lastly, anyone have an idea of how I should plan out my attack to re doing this vehicle?
would the engine be last? drivetrain first? then body?

If you're going to strip the engine yourself, do yourself a favour... photograph everything before you take it off, label it and stow it separately (small parts grouped in labeled plastic bags eg). That way you know how it goes together again and won't be sitting there looking at a freshly-assembled engine and wondering "where did this part sitting beside me go...?".

Ref the rest: if you want to do it right, strip it down to the bare frame, store the body bits (small parts labeled and stowed as per the above instruction) then start there. Blast, prime and paint the frame and go from there. Next to go on would be the axles - you may not have to strip them, but you'll want to change the oil for sure - then do the seals and brakes and mount wheels and tyres... and so on, and so on... while you're doing this you can have the engine done, then mount it before your body goes back on.

BTW, you may not have to pull the transmission/transfer cases apart, but I highly recommend you pull the tops off to check for moisture damage or even water inside - don't knock it, I've seen many like that.

Ref the body... you can restore it as an original CJ2A, or you can fake up an MB if you really wanted to... it's up to you. You'd need at the very least a grill, a windshield assembly and to remove the tailgate and replace with a welded-in flat panel reinforced to take a spare tyre carrier and jerry can holder.

The chances are, though, you could probably make a lot of money on a fully restored CJ2A from the jeep aficionados then turn around and buy a real MB. As I said, it's up to you. Regardless, jeep people here on MLU will help you!

Lastly, I recommend you look up the several HAMMOND BARN threads we have in the Restoration Forum to learn the proper way of rebuilding an old vehicle... these gentlemen are Masters!

Geoff

[Speedy]

hi Geoff
thank you! that helps and will work with what you said
I will keep it cj2a as it still has the military look.

the head is coming off, to see inside.
cracked the nuts free. cant wait to take it off!

[Speedy]

so last exam was today. pulled the head, since this is the first time working around full size engines I am not sure the condition.
I think the rings are stuck to the head, it seems like its all carbon build up. light surface rust on 2 of the cyls, the other 2 seem like they might be worse, might be carbon will need to look at it closer.

getting my car buddies over tomorrow, then I will have a better idea of what to do.
a friend offered me a free chevy 350 engine, but that seems like a big project.

o yeh, the liquid in the cylinder is atf and wd40. been in the cylinders for atleast 2 weeks so those cyls are stuck or the carbon is stopping it from going thru.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Mike.
What I am seeing is a badly carboned up engine..No idea what the bottom end is like but the valves are not all burned up and split..a good sign..and once you pull the engine and can see what is going on down below you will have a better idea..
That happens when they spend a lot of time idling and slow..low RPM operation..
Rich on the fuel under these conditions..hence the carbon..
IF all the other tune up points ..timing..carb...valve..etc.adjustments are in spec..
Anyway press on..Keep the pix coming..
You are doing fine.
One more thing..DON'T let your "Car Buddies"..talk you into pounding those pistons down "JUst to see if..."...what ever..
Pull the engine.take off the pan..disconnect the connecting rods ..then you can use a wooden block and tap them to break them loose...but don't attempt until disconnecting the connecting rods and rotating the crank to clear the rods..mark your end caps to each connecting rod and the way they are facing before you pull them apart and throw them in a box..
What I used to do was as I was disassembling... I had a big piece of heavy cardboard and I would put slits in the card board and I would position the components on the card board exactly in the direction..number..combination..of all the components as I took them off ..that way I didn't mix up my end caps..rods..valves..pushrods ,main bearing caps etc..and I knew what went where when ever I got the rest of the short block finished...things look a lot better when you know where every thing goes and which way it came out..

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

As Alex said, that engine doesn't look too bad - the valves look great, even on no. 4 cylinder. It's just been sitting outside way too long. Keep soaking all four cylinders but don't force it free... eventually it will loosen up then you can pull it and strip for a decent inspection. If the bottom end is good, then you might get away with a simple honing or if not, a 1st oversize bore job.

I wouldn't recommend that 350 for your vehicle. You might get away with a small V-6, but either one would detract from its restored value. Work with what you have - it's all you really need.

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by Alex Blair

Mike.
What I am seeing is a badly carboned up engine..No idea what the bottom end is like but the valves are not all burned up and split..a good sign..and once you pull the engine and can see what is going on down below you will have a better idea..
That happens when they spend a lot of time idling and slow..low RPM operation..
Rich on the fuel under these conditions..hence the carbon..
IF all the other tune up points ..timing..carb...valve..etc.adjustments are in spec..
Anyway press on..Keep the pix coming..
You are doing fine.
One more thing..DON'T let your "Car Buddies"..talk you into pounding those pistons down "JUst to see if..."...what ever..
Pull the engine.take off the pan..disconnect the connecting rods ..then you can use a wooden block and tap them to break them loose...but don't attempt until disconnecting the connecting rods and rotating the crank to clear the rods..mark your end caps to each connecting rod and the way they are facing before you pull them apart and throw them in a box..
What I used to do was as I was disassembling... I had a big piece of heavy cardboard and I would put slits in the card board and I would position the components on the card board exactly in the direction..number..combination..of all the components as I took them off ..that way I didn't mix up my end caps..rods..valves..pushrods ,main bearing caps etc..and I knew what went where when ever I got the rest of the short block finished...things look a lot better when you know where every thing goes and which way it came out..

taking the engine out of the jeep and disassembling the bottom end is a whole new ball game for me :S.

- what would I be looking for on the bottom end? it does still have oil when I check the dip stick.

- why do I need to disconnect the rods before hitting the pistons with the wood ontop?

the carb is stuck, it seems untouched. my neighbor has access to a ultrasonic cleaner, but should I just see if I can free it myself befor disassembling and rebuilding? by spraying wd40 all over and inside.

the ignition has new points and condenser or they look bran new.

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

As Alex said, that engine doesn't look too bad - the valves look great, even on no. 4 cylinder. It's just been sitting outside way too long. Keep soaking all four cylinders but don't force it free... eventually it will loosen up then you can pull it and strip for a decent inspection. If the bottom end is good, then you might get away with a simple honing or if not, a 1st oversize bore job.

I wouldn't recommend that 350 for your vehicle. You might get away with a small V-6, but either one would detract from its restored value. Work with what you have - it's all you really need.

what should I soak the cylinders with?
diesel? (should I clean out the carbon somehow)

I agree I was hesitant about the 350 and after talking to other owners it seems the 350 would grenade the transmission. I never did like the idea of using another engine in this jeep, I love the original bits

[cantankrs]

Originally Posted by Speedy

- why do I need to disconnect the rods before hitting the pistons with the wood ontop?

what should I soak the cylinders with?
diesel? (should I clean out the carbon somehow)

Hi Speedy,

You should disconnect the rod big-ends (maybe even pull the crank out but mark the pistons, rod caps and main bearing caps for position and direction first (don't forget the pistons-mark the front side)) so that each cylinder can be treated individually. If you thump on a nice fitting block of wood on one piston (preferably round and gotta be flat if a flat piston crown) then the shock is trying to transfer to all the other 3 pistons via the crank and rods. And that's not good for the rods or bearings or gears/chain or valve train.

Also I've experienced agro from an engine rod flopping and one of the big-end studs marking a crank journal - NOT something you want to happen to your pride and joy!! So if the big end bolts don't come out (not personally familiar with jeeps) then find some plastic or rubber hose that is a snug fit over the threads (so it won't fall off on ya) and cut bits off to slip over the threads to save your crank from being marked. You could try tape but needs to be thick enough and might not want to stick.

Some engine blocks don't allow for the pistons to be removed out the bottom due to insufficient size/clearances. So you can only knock them down so far (carefully) and then have to push from the bottom up using a different bit of wood. If the stroke of the motor is long enough and there's enough clearance with the casting then they will come out below (e.g. Fordson E27N tractor has long enough stroke and enough mains casting clearance for piston with rod to come out without removing crank I think).

Also (dunno about jeeps) retorquing bigend bolts would be risky if the bolts have been strained before. Replacing them with new especially in diesels is probably advisable.

I've heard that old automatic transmission fluid is a good at getting past stuck rings - just takes a fair while - perhaps months.

I've read that not too stiff rotary wirebrushes in a drill can clean off carbon - so long as it doesn't remove metal then should be OK.

Regards

Alex

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Speedy

taking the engine out of the jeep and disassembling the bottom end is a whole new ball game for me :S.

- what would I be looking for on the bottom end? it does still have oil when I check the dip stick.

- why do I need to disconnect the rods before hitting the pistons with the wood ontop?

the carb is stuck, it seems untouched. my neighbor has access to a ultrasonic cleaner, but should I just see if I can free it myself befor disassembling and rebuilding? by spraying wd40 all over and inside.

the ignition has new points and condenser or they look bran new.



what should I soak the cylinders with?
diesel? (should I clean out the carbon somehow)

I agree I was hesitant about the 350 and after talking to other owners it seems the 350 would grenade the transmission. I never did like the idea of using another engine in this jeep, I love the original bits

Mike..
Your questions are sincere and pretty intelligent..but your youth..exuberance and inexperience shows immediately....which is a good thing/....I am willing to help anyone that needs it but have little patience or time for a know it all..
Which is not you..
Keep the questions coming and print out the two responses from Alex Blair and Alex McDougal...Canada..and Australia...miles apart physically but together in our evaluations of your postings..
Alex Mc is giving you excellent advise...read and heed..
The Other uncle Alex

[Speedy]

thank you Alex Blair and Alex McDougal

I thought that hitting the tops of a piston wouldnt hurt much, but now I see these hits differ from the normal engine running.

I am going to take Alex's advice and print out and save the replies to help me out. I want to do everything exactly how I have been told to do it, but I lack the tools and space to pull the motor at this time.

my uncle agreed to help me out, and he has the tools so I may need to wait awhile befor I can start more work. this step would involve trailering my jeep a distance away, which would mean less time to work on it.

I will do what i can now, clean the pistons and let them soak.

so I am afraid updates will be slower now.
unless I try finding another area to work on.

[Grant Bowker]

I don't know how well the high schools and colleges in your part of Ontario are for auto shops but have you considered signing up for a night course in auto mechaniscs?
They might be glad to have you bring your engine in as one of the course projects although you might want to discuss it with the instructors first to be sure you and they have similar views on how original it needs to be, how many parts need to be saved as opposed to replaced? etc. If you can find a course that caters to people who want to restore an older vehicle it might be a better fit than a course aimed at someone with a newer vehicle that was designed to replace assemblies rather than refurbish individual parts.

[maple_leaf_eh]

The bright side to you Jeep project is what Bob Carriere told me. With a parts manual and enough money, a Jeep can be rebuilt from parts starting with one bolt. This is North America, and enough Jeeps and parts are in circulation. The Internet has made guys in Australia, Ottawa, Toronto and Hammond get serious about coaching.

Taking apart a Jeep engine will need tools, space and some muscle. As Alex posted, there is organization reqd. But I've known bachelors who rebuilt their motorcycles in the living room. (Heck there is a Winnipeg forum member who rebuilt his Universal Carrier inside, and had a spray booth next to the dining table!) You will learn about mechanics. Period.

And, as my friend Chris says, 'the boat build the builder'.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's a way to unstick a motor that might work on yours. Use a rotary wire brush to remove the rust above the pistons then blow all the crud out with compressed air and pour a bunch of WD40 or the like on the pistons. Put a wrench on the crank pulley nut or a pipe wrench on the pulley so it sticks out as near horizontal as you can get it. Then weigh down the handle with whatever you can use and leave it like that for a week or two. The steady pressure while the oil is doing its thing will often do the job. If not put the wrench pointing the other way and try again. This doesn't always work but it's worth a try and your motor doesn't look too bad.

[Lynn Eades]

If that doesn't work, try pouring a little diesel in on top of the pistons, and set fire to it. You will need to put in a bit of rag to act as a wick.(to get the diesel to burn) You might have to go through the process a couple of times.
What it does is warms up the various components a little bit. They all expand at different rates, and make the bits move slightly, relative to each other. Give it another clean on top of each piston, and give it another oil. try moving it again