Two Speed Transfer Box

Ken Hughes · #1 11-08-10, 07:49

Hi people,a question, does the internals from a chev two stage/power take off transfer box,fit a ford transfer box housing .

Lynn Eades · #2 11-08-10, 08:39

send a pm to Tony Smith, if he doesn,t come back here.

Ken Hughes · #3 11-08-10, 10:23

Thanks Lynn,Cheers.

Phil Waterman · #4 11-08-10, 15:23

Hi Ken

First step is to really identify which transfer case and which PTO. Depending on how many rebuilds, repairs, different mechanics who have worked on them CMPs that I have seen can end up being a real mix and match as to what parts it started life with and what may have now 70 years later. Chevy trucks with Ford Engine Transmissions groups were supposedly common in North African rebuilds.

If I remember the service bulletins correctly Chevy used at least 7 different two speed transfer cases. There is also a note in the Chevy service bulletins that I read as saying not all two-speed transfer cases even have the parts internally to accept a PTO. Simple logic why do machining on a transfer case that may never be needed.

Looking at the Ford parts books I have I don't see any mention of interchange with Chevy.

For our Ford guys what are the indication that it is a Ford Transfer Case?

Cheers Phil

Bob Carriere · #5 12-08-10, 05:31

From experience on working on about 5 Chevy T case......

Ford and Chevy have very different outside castings...... nothing here would interchange..... however..... I beleive that some of the gears in the single speed may fit either models.....

Chev went through a lot fo modification on the outside castings...e.i. more room for extra oil.... but the internal parts remained the same.

The two speed again is a totally different animal.... the single speed T case will not accept a PTO has the inner parts have not been machined as pointed out by Phil.

As a point of interest.... I was able to source all the bearings,race and seals for the Chevy 2 speed T case...... and in most cases be prepared to by some speedy sleeve to circumvent worn ridges...... total cost a bit over $600 and that was 3 years ago. And I filled it with fully synthetic gear oil.

The worst part or best.... it still leaks!!!!

Boob

gjamo · #6 12-08-10, 13:00

This may help put it in context.
Graeme

Phil Waterman · #7 12-08-10, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjamo

Pic did not upload second try.

Hi

Do you have a higher resolution photo or scan? If so I would be glad to post it at low and high resolution on my site and we can link from MLU.

Cheers Phil

Grant Bowker · #8 12-08-10, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi

Do you have a higher resolution photo or scan? If so I would be glad to post it at low and high resolution on my site and we can link from MLU.

Cheers Phil

The page is an extract from the Chev Major Assemblies listing. There are similar diagrams for engines front axles, rear axles, transfer cases along with tables that list the component parts that make up the major assembly and as a result what makes the many different engines.... different. Reproductions are available (at least from me, possibly from others too).

Phil Waterman · #9 12-08-10, 14:55

Hi Grant

Great to hear that particular assembly identification and other similar info are available as reference material.

Where can I find a list of which ones you have as reprints/copies?

Cheers Phil

Grant Bowker · #10 12-08-10, 15:31

Right now, the web page isn't functioning, I need to get off my butt and learn how to fix that (and then do so). In the meantime, I'm happy to send people a list or answer specific questions about availablity. I could post a PDF of the available manuals but I'm not sure that it would be fair to use MLU's bandwidth to distribute the list. Perhaps the best way is for interested people to PM me their e-mail addresses and I send them the list.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #11 12-08-10, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

Right now, the web page isn't functioning, I need to get off my butt and learn how to fix that (and then do so). In the meantime, I'm happy to send people a list or answer specific questions about availablity. I could post a PDF of the available manuals but I'm not sure that it would be fair to use MLU's bandwidth to distribute the list. Perhaps the best way is for interested people to PM me their e-mail addresses and I send them the list.

Phil..
Here is the manual you need from the "NEW" Mr.Manual...

#1: 150 pages* CMA-01 Chev. And Gm Illustrated Catalogue Of Major Assemblies (Aug'44) (Engines, Transmissions, Transfer Cases, Front & Rear Axel, Steering) Cdn. Military Pattern Vehicles And Armoured Truck, Armoured And Reconnaissance Cars And Modified Conventional Vehicles. (50 Models)

The "Elderly"Mr.Manual..

Max Hedges · #12 12-08-10, 23:54

many years ago I changed the pto from a ford to a chev 2 speed transfer case ( or chev to ford not sure know ) it all went together but the dog that went onto the shaft that came out of the other transfer case had a differant way of being secured. One of the shafts had a pin that went through the dog to attach it to the shaft and the other one didn't,that could have been as one wasn't fitted for the pto in the first place too long ago to remember, it did work what ever I done

Bob Phillips · #13 17-08-10, 02:41

Gentlemen; As I seem to remember the easiest way to identify a Ford vs Chev 2 speed transfer case is to note that a Ford has an extra heavy casting section with threaded holes where the two speed shift mechanism attaches directly to the case. The Chevy has the 2 speed shift mechanism attached to a cross brace between the frame rails. Single speeds are the same except that the FORD script is cast into the bearing/shaft end caps. Hope this helps!

Ken Hughes · #14 19-08-10, 10:22

Thanks for your input guys

Lynn Eades · #15 19-08-10, 11:23

No one has answered your question yet, have they?

Ken Hughes · #16 21-08-10, 05:53

Hi Lynn,yes and no would be the answer so far,i think there is some good advice though.
I will probably strip the Chev transfer case down and try and see what will fit the Ford transfer box,as long as its not too much trouble to make one out of two.
It is only as a spare transfer box that i do this,
And there are no C30/60L around here that are in need.

hrpearce · #17 21-08-10, 10:38

Ken, I haven't had either transfer case open but my Chev case has some Ford external parts on it. The only difference I found on the externals was the outside diamenter of seals. I looked in the manuals and while you can count the teeth in the Chev one the Ford one has fingers and spanners in every picture but they looked like they were the same.

Grant Bowker · #18 25-08-10, 22:40

I'm finally ready to take a stab at answering this.
Using the parts listings for the C60L and F60L as source:
For the front axle declutch assembly the housing, shaft, shift fork and the clutch to engage into the transfer case proper all have common part numbers so although I didn't check it seems the whole assembly is the same.
For the PTO assembly the housing, sliding clutch, bearings, shift fork (also a common # to the front axle disengage fork) share coomom part #s Ford & Chev, again I think the whole assembly is probably the same.
Transfer case output shaft and gears has same part # for both types, idler shaft and gears have same part #s, input shaft and gears also have common #s between brands.
The case housings have individual part #s for the 2 brands.
On what I can see, it looks as if both makers used the same or at least similar internals (most seem to have GM style part #s perhaps indicating designer?) within their own cases. The bearings that I checked seem to be the same part #s but I didn't check to see that all of the cones pressed into the case were the same (could have used the same bearing with different cones to match different size holes in the cases).
Perhaps different chassis led to different mounts (and as has already been mentioned different designs for mounting the T case shift) and thus different cases?

Ken Hughes · #19 26-08-10, 07:36

Thanks for the reply Grant,What i wanted to hear!.
Over the next couple of months we will strip down the two boxes and try a rebuild.
With what you say it looks as though it might work,good stuff.
Will keep progress posted, cheers.

Ken Hughes · #20 10-10-10, 08:45

So far all the internals from the Chev box look as though they will fit the Ford,including bearings.all seem to be the same.

Ken Hughes · #21 10-10-11, 06:50

Update,so far the chev internals do have some differences,ie,longer shaft length on one of the main shafts,but if you use all the chev internals shouldnt be a problem.
ALL the declutching units on both transfer boxes ARE GM.that is the Ford box and the same with the Chev box! i can see the purists sqirm over that!.
Some of the main box bearings appear to be the same as on a GMC as well.
To be continued

Keith Webb · #22 10-10-11, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Hughes

es ARE GM.that is the Ford box and the same with the Chev box! i can see the purists sqirm over that!.

Bit like the way a large number of the GS bodies on both types of Australian CMPs were built by Holden. We're used to it this side of the ditch.

Wheldon Wishart · #23 30-10-11, 02:21

Hi Ken.
This is a pick of my Ford Transfer case with GM internals. Front Axle declutch is off a C8

Bob Carriere · #24 30-10-11, 03:31

.... must be the setting on my computer.....

Kidding aside..... nice clean job..... is it leaking yet ????

Bob C

Wheldon Wishart · #25 30-10-11, 10:18

Thanks.
Dosent leak a drop. I put it together with hardend flat washers & loctite 510 around the bolts, not spring washers. As I had done one before with spring washers and it leaked like real bad.