Handing it down

[Chris Ford]

My name is Chris Ford, son of Peter Ford. (out of the blue, I know)

I recently was looking at Mapleleafup.org in an effort to contact some of my father's old CMP friends about what to do with his old '43 Ford 15 hwt. F15 A. Unfortunately I no longer have the space for it. I'm therefore looking for a new home for it. Museum? Local enthusiast? I was going to post on the site, but I was shocked and saddened to see the site was no longer there. Digging deeper, I found the site's new home as was quite relieved. Then I read about Geoff's passing, and was again shocked, saddened and sorry to hear about it. It seems my dad was one of very many who held him in high esteem.

While looking at the forum, I saw the thread about "handing it down" and recognized the title of the 'CMP 84 Seminar' tapes mentioned. I looked through my basement and found 3 reels of 5, on beta cassettes (betamax Keith, betamax! Does anyone else still have betamax? There are 5 tapes because they are all shorter than your typical VHS). I plugged them in and found the sound quality to be just fine. Tonight I managed to locate the other two reels. One of the tapes seemed to have some mic feedback and light hissing that rendered the speakers difficult to understand - though probably not for you guys - I just didn't know much about what he was discussing. Maybe any future formats should have subtitles for the difficult parts. I'm not sure what would be the most efficient way to get them out there for the interested world, but I'm looking to send them to Keith as he seems quite interested in working on them.

I feel pretty happy to still have these tapes and to be able to help out. A few years ago, when I was going through the 3000 or so beta tapes my dad had (that's right he didn't just collect military vehicles!), I made the decision to keep those tapes, though I didn't really know what they were. I figured, that someday I might get into the CMP world and if so, these tapes might be a good source of info to start me on my way. I decided to check out the first part of the first tape to get an idea of what the seminar was about and was really pleased and surprised to see my dad was a coordinator for it. It was really neat to see him as a 47 year old man and listen to his passionate introductory comments for the convention about the importance of the war efforts, including cmp production, to our history and culture.

After my dad died, I had wanted to get involved with infoex, maybe even continue updating and publishing it. But the task seems beyond my resources. In the ten years since his passing, life has just moved from one thing to another, my life has taken its own direction, and I don't really foresee too many "let's become a world expert on an entirely new hobby" moments opening-up anytime soon!! With one little boy and another on the way, my hands are nice and full. Both Elizabeth (my sister) and I feel discomfort that it has sat shelved for so long. We are proud of our dad's work and his knowledge in this field but we remain as unsure today as we did a decade ago, as to what we should do with it. She had talked to Marc Montgomery about it a long time ago, but then we never really moved on it. Any thoughts about what should be done with infoex? What would be of most benefit to cmp enthusiasts and to cmp history?

Thanks for your time, and for maintaining such a high quality and important website,
-Chris Ford

p.s. (and not a small p.s.) I would like to pass on a great big thank you to those who have been involved in CMP preservation. Not only because of the great service it does to Canada and the Commonwealth, but because of the people who inspired and shared a passion with my dad. It was one of his greatest joys to partake in conversations with this community. Further I would like to thank you for the heartwarming comments that were made shortly after his death. It truly helped to ease the pain to hear that he was so well appreciated and respected. Ten years later I am still thankful for your kindness and reading even today people commenting on him and his work, really makes my family and me proud.

[Brian Gough]

Hello Chris,

Welcome to the MLU Forum and thank you for your posting. It is nice to have contact with Peter's family.

Your father was one of the true pioneers of the CMP hobby and you have every reason to be proud of him. He was most helpful to me when I was first getting involved and I was trying to find a HUP to buy. We wrote and spoke many times and on 2 occasions he spent a day here in Oshawa with Barry Churcher and me. The last time was on the trip just before his death. I will try to locate some photos of him that were taken then.

He certainly had a love of history. On his last trip he was particularly interested in taking pictures of Camp 30, the WWII German prisoner of war camp in Bowmanville. He said he had thousands of photographs he had taken all across the country.

That is very good news about your locating the CMP 84 Seminar tapes and offering to share them with Keith.

Best regards to you and Elizabeth.

Brian

[Keith Webb]

Hi Chris and may I echo Brian's comments. We're very happy to have you here on MLU and of course even happier at the prospect we can help share some of your dad's enthusiasm for this, our favourite subject.

Welcome, and may you find your contact and involvement with the community fascinating and fruitful.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Chris

It most certainly pleasant hearing from you, your father had many friends through this strange shared interest in CMPs. I first started corresponding with your dad not long after I discovered the history my HUP. He helped me with information about the CBC trucks and the recordings equipment. Your Dad had hoped that my HUP was actually one of the CBC trucks which had disappeared, but once we discussed the date of manufacture (to late) we knew it wasn't. I remember well your Dad coming down to Lowell Massachusetts in 1986 for the MVPV convention, we rode through the streets of the city in a parade, your Dad, my family and three young Canadians in my HUP we all had a grand time. It was also your Dad who contacted me about CMP 84 and urged me to attend, which I'm so grateful I did.

The tapes you have found are probably some of the closest to the original recording that are likely to be found. They probably offer the best chance to recover the history that was discussed at that conference.

As to information in InFoex, though some of the information will have changed, who owns what trucks, there is still a lot of information there that will help people date vehicles, which are missing the data plates. With the growth of the internet as a median of information exchange such MLU making that information available even as simple text files would be of interest.

May I extend our best wishes to you, your sister, and the entire Ford family.

Cheers Phil

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Welcome aboard Chris..
On your dads last trip east,he and Elizabeth stopped here at the house in Ottawa and we were pleased to have a great visit and to feed them and to meet them finally ,as my previous conversations with Peter were by e-mail..through MLU forum or by phone..
You dad sure was a sucker for my wife's lemon pie and I was able to twist his arm for a second big slice which disappeared quickly..
He appeared to have a chest cold and I was hoping that he would have a quick trip home and get some rest..
Your dad was a giant in our world and there are many Saskatchewan and prairie MLU members that with help you with you Dads CMP disposal and will give you fair market value or better.
Some of the names would be David Pope..Rob Fast..Rob Love..and those three off the top of my head and there are others.
I personally know most of the posters on this thread that you started and can vouch for their honesty and sincerity and you can Private Message any one of us for information that you don't want to post publicly..When dealing in this ..or any other field that are always those that will take advantage of you..either financially or otherwise to cheat and rob you..
What you have is worth a big buck to some collectors so be aware and discuss with Brian..or me or Keith or Phil in confidence with your ideas..intentions or any other thoughts and ideas you may have with you fathers collections..
As a past CMP Manual collector ..when I sold it I sold it to a man here in Ottawa that assured me that these would always be available for others to buy copies of..
He is working on a new web site to get them back on line and I hope Grant gets these back on line.
Be careful .there are those that would steal the pennies out of a dead mans eyes ..when it comes to CMP stuff..
There are trusted agents of our CMP Fraternity that could get those tapes back to Keith in Australia that are coming to Canada to visit in July if we could get them to Keith he can trans pose then to DVD's He has a whole audio visual business doing just that..another very trusted MLUer..
And an original CMP nut..
Keep posting..we are not going anywhere..
Alex Blair
Ottawa

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

Chris - Finding a good home for a CMP such as your Dad's Mach KL is a challenge. Sadly CMPs are not treasured very much in Canada. I sold my old C15 (which your Dad drove on a visit to Burnaby, BC) to Brian Wood of Vancouver who later donated a bunch of his CMPs to the Canadian War Museum and RCA Museum in Shilo. Mine was one of those. You can check out the military museums in Saskatchewan, though they never have the money to purchase, but often can issue tax receipts. - Colin Stevens (formerly N. Battleford, SK) Richmond, BC seaforth72@gmail.com

[Chris Ford]

Thanks Keith, Brian, Alex, Hanno, Phil, and Colin for your replies. It really brought a smile to my face to hear from you. By the way Phil, I saw you in the CMP videos asking a question - it was nice to see the face that went along with the name - even if the image was 27 years old! Also, I saw your friends tribute page on your cmp site - thank you.

Colin, any sense of what my dad`s truck is worth - if a person sold it privately or donated it to a museum? Does the tax receipt match the approximate private sale value? The truck is still in good condition. I believe the master cylinder needed work or replacement (ideas where to get one or who to see to get`er fixed?) and as a result the brakes don`t work. As well the fan belt is too old and loose (again ideas on where to get a new one?).
Also Colin, I saw your tribute too. Whenever I wanted to show somebody what my dad and a CMP looked like - I would go to your site. Thanks for for the kind words and act.

Other than that I think she`s still a beaute! We used it in 2001 as the wedding party vehicle for my sister`s wedding - the first time I got to drive it. Wow, double clutching with no synchomesh, and gas pedal in the middle, not to mention its all backwards for right-hand driving. It was pretty fun!

Keith - where do you want me to send the tapes? I`m going to dub my dad`s opening remarks onto DVD for my family once I remember how to hook up the wires, and while I`m at it, I`ll probably do the whole five tapes as well, then send the originals to you. Betamax isn`t a problem for you right? If Australia is all out, I`ve still got 4 of my father`s former 11 kicking around - you know for parts!

Not to be forgotten, I also appreciated the kind words on your web site about my pop. Writing this post - I hadn`t previously considered that three different individuals in three different countries had devoted a section of their websites to pay tribute to him. That`s really something to me.

-Chris Ford

[Marc Montgomery]

I believe a couple of photos of your sister's wedding were featured in Convoy magazine involving your Dads CMP.. dont have them handy where i am right now though. Perhaps someone else who does have them handy can tell you.

[r.morrison]

Guys....for what it's worth. My next door neighbour has a sound recording studio in Vancouver and the current President of our group, the Canadian Military Remembrance Society is a whizz bang with computers and copying items, such as you speak. Can we assist in any way?

No guarantees....but something is better than nothing! Robert

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by r.morrison

Guys....for what it's worth. My next door neighbour has a sound recording studio in Vancouver and the current President of our group, the Canadian Military Remembrance Society is a whizz bang with computers and copying items, such as you speak. Can we assist in any way?

No guarantees....but something is better than nothing! Robert

Sounds like a fine idea Robert! This may be just what we need. It would be far easier to do it locally if that can be achieved.

I'm still standing by to assist if need be.

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

Chris:

Best to get and keep the truck in good running order. Try Brian Asbury in Milton, Ontario. 519-853-1738. No storage space in Saskatchewan? I can't believe that! If you think its hard to find out there, try finding storage in the Vancouver, BC area! That is a key reason why I sold my Ferret Scout Car (a little armoured car).

Selling a truck that does not run is a big money losing proposition. If you donated it to a museum you would get a tax receipt for "Fair Market Value" i.e. the value it would sell for in an open market with a willing seller and knowledgeable buyer. Higher value if running! If tax receipt is from a regular non-profit society/museum, at tax time you could deduct it and the tax rules let you deduct about 27% of the value. If you donate it to to a Federal museum, their tax receipt will be good for 100%. Unfair to small museums but then Ottawa writes the rules. For appraisals under $1,000 a Curator can do it. If between $1,000 and $5,000 then a second appraiser is required. If over $5,000 then three appraisers are required. I could be one of those for you at no cost, in memory of your Dad. Could do it through photos. I have seen the truck, though years ago. Value is likely between $5,000 and $15,000. Sadly Canadian vehicles don't usually command high prices as the demand is strangely low. Canadian War Museum would not need it. They have lots of CMPs. There are some military museums in Sask. Also some collectors.

If you have a problem finding someone to convert Beta tapes to DVD, let me know. An acquaintance owns a company here in BC which does many types of conversions.

By the way, please keep your eyes open for a cassette tape of mine that I had loaned to your Dad. It was recordinjg of us firing (legally) a variety of machineguns, and riding in Mickey Zwack's Universal Carrier in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan. Unfortunately was the only copy and the gun laws have changed so we cannot repeat the sound effects.

Colin Stevens seaforth72@gmail.com

Originally Posted by Chris Ford

Thanks Keith, Brian, Alex, Hanno, Phil, and Colin for your replies. ...

Colin, any sense of what my dad`s truck is worth - if a person sold it privately or donated it to a museum? Does the tax receipt match the approximate private sale value? The truck is still in good condition. I believe the master cylinder needed work or replacement (ideas where to get one or who to see to get`er fixed?) and as a result the brakes don`t work. As well the fan belt is too old and loose (again ideas on where to get a new one?).
Also Colin, I saw your tribute too. Whenever I wanted to show somebody what my dad and a CMP looked like - I would go to your site. Thanks for for the kind words and act.

Other than that I think she`s still a beaute! We used it in 2001 as the wedding party vehicle for my sister`s wedding - the first time I got to drive it. Wow, double clutching with no synchomesh, and gas pedal in the middle, not to mention its all backwards for right-hand driving. It was pretty fun!

Keith - where do you want me to send the tapes? I`m going to dub my dad`s opening remarks onto DVD for my family once I remember how to hook up the wires, and while I`m at it, I`ll probably do the whole five tapes as well, then send the originals to you. Betamax isn`t a problem for you right? If Australia is all out, I`ve still got 4 of my father`s former 11 kicking around - you know for parts!

Not to be forgotten, I also appreciated the kind words on your web site about my pop. Writing this post - I hadn`t previously considered that three different individuals in three different countries had devoted a section of their websites to pay tribute to him. That`s really something to me.

-Chris Ford

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Chris Ford

The truck is still in good condition. I believe the master cylinder needed work or replacement (ideas where to get one or who to see to get`er fixed?) and as a result the brakes don`t work. As well the fan belt is too old and loose (again ideas on where to get a new one?).
*snip*
Other than that I think she`s still a beaute! We used it in 2001 as the wedding party vehicle for my sister`s wedding - the first time I got to drive it. Wow, double clutching with no synchomesh, and gas pedal in the middle, not to mention its all backwards for right-hand driving. It was pretty fun!

Hello Chris,

Go to Modern part numbers for CMPs to look up the part no. for a Ford brake master cylinder. They are still a current item. If the master cylinder itself is still usable, you can buy a set of cups etc. off a WW2 Dodge WC-series truck as the innards of both master cylinders are the same.
As for fanbelts, check macsautoparts.com or any other retailer stocking Ford Flathead parts, they should be able to help you out.
But not too difficult jobs if you have some spanner twirling experience, otherwise it should not cost and arm an a leg to have someone else do it.

As others have said, if you do not need the cash and can arrange storage someplace, I think it is worth keeping the truck. Being in a very busy phase of your life, you could also consider loaning it to a museum. It will be on display and under cover, but you will keep it in the family.

Regards,
Hanno

[r.morrison]

Dear Phil, Keith, Bob, Brian, Alex, Derek, Chris, Brian, Hanno and Marc......As per my earlier input on this subject... who has the details on the tapes and who has them??? My parties are now inquiring if you want help. Please advise......Robert

[Chris Ford]

Dear Robert and others interest in the tapes finer details

I have 5 betamax tapes. All of them are L250 (that's the designation of tape length - back in the day they had L125, L250, L500, L750, and logically L830) The recording speed was Beta II - meaning middle of the road quality - which on beta was still quite good. The resultant length in minutes is therefore 60. That's right 5 - 1 hour tapes. Bonken Productions Inc. provided the editing facilities and it's their letterhead that appears on the outside of the tapes I have, so I gather it was issued directly from them. However my dad had a tendancy to print off formal looking things for his tapes so I can't be entirely sure.

The tapes are not just raw footage, editing of the seminar is evident, but how much was taken out, is unknown to me. My feeling is that not too much was cut from the talks. As well the producer (Bill Trbovich) also acts as the narrator and inserts some commentary accompanied by black and white photos from the war. I still haven't watched too much of the entire five hours, but the narration parts seem to be few in number. Photos are also periodically inserted while the panelists are speaking. Although this adds to the show, during the parts where the panelist is difficult to understand, it does render any lip reading during those segments impossible. Depending on the ability of technology to clean-up noise, lip reading may be the only way to understand what is being said for portions of the video - that and some intelligent deduction. From what I've seen so far, portions of the first and second video are tough to follow - it sort of depends on who was speaking and how closely they spoke into the mics and whether other mics were open while they were speaking. The last 3 tapes seemed better, from a quick glance, but more extensive viewing may reveal difficulties with those tapes as well.

As for the producer Bill Trbovich and his production company TRBojay, I found him on facebook and have sent him a letter telling him of our interest to make these tapes more widely available. I am not certain as to the legality of copying his work and sending it out to others, or even making the tapes available. I thought with the seminar being so far back, maybe copyrights might have expired - however from what I've looked up, copyrights for video in Canada last 50 years after the author passes away. I've asked him to provide his thoughts on the fair usage of this. Perhaps you guys, particularly Keith in the production industry, know more about this issue. I have not heard back from him yet, and if not soon, may try him at other contact addresses on the internet. As a small aside, the copyright symbol at the end of the tape looked not like a circled c but a circled b - is that symbol of ownership or was the video just playing games with me?


As to my truck issue:

First I'd like to really thank those who suggested some really practical ideas for improving its state. And yes, Colin there are a few open hectares of space in Saskatchewan, however I was looking for some indoor space and that costs mucho dinero every month. My prime concern, more powerful than a desire to keep it, is to see it preserved in good condition. I guess that's why I hoped for a museum. In my keep, with almost no knowledge of vehicle maintenance (sad but true) I see it leaking away, rusting away, wearing away only because I wanted to hang on to it. I don't want it to get to an irreparable state. I'd prefer to see it parading out in the streets, year after year on VE day, Remembrance Day (maybe too cold), for car shows and for Air shows (sadly we recently had our last one) - always inspiring the question - "What in the world is that thing?" and a number of other questions. The curiosity inspired by an impressive hunk of steel which leads to a greater understanding of history. All of this would require careful and vigilant maintenance from someone with the know-how. My dad figured mechanics out (to a degree) from taking apart and putting together Land Rovers. "Take it off ABC and put it back on CBA" he used to tell me. I grew up with Honda and Nissan - touch anything and the computer inside will chastise you. That hands-on motor savvy is another one of those things that seems to be going by the wayside with this generation.

Now don't get me wrong. I don't see the situation as hopeless. But just viewing things realistically, I don't think I'll be able to find the faulty piston by sticking a wooden spoon to the engine like my grandfather could - that is to say, mechanics scares me, especially the idea of learning on something so rare and valuable. Incidentally - Alex, when you said I could never find a vehicle like it - were you implying that my dad's truck was a particularly noteworthy example of a CMP or simply saying that I would never find any other CMP?

p.s. If you haven't noticed, I'm the king of short, succinct letters. I apologize for my extensive brevity.

[r.morrison]

God.....I hate emails! Chris send me your phone number. My email address is rob.mor@shaw.ca. Will call you over the next few days. Regards...Robert