WW2 Canadian, Australian and New Zealand Transport

[Mike Cecil]

David,

I think that would be the Capo Noli, captured in the StL Seaway by HMCS Bras d'Or on 10 June 1940, and renamed the SS Bic Island. She was sunk by U224 on 29 October 1942, with the tragic loss of all hands and the rescued survivors of two other merchant ships.

I think you'll find there were a small number of prize vessels on the Canadian register during WW2 from a variety of countries: Finland, Denmark, Germany and Italy. I think this was the only Italian vessel. Carolus was ex-Finland, and MV Europa was ex-Danish. Vancouver Island was ex-German. Certainly an interesting period in shipping history!

Brian: what a great recollection! And gives us the ship that some of the Canadians travelled on, too. The MV Roseville is listed as a cargo ship with capacity for 12 first class passengers. Wonder how many they crammed into that space during the war.

Mike C

[motto (RIP)]

What an interesting thread! A glimpse of the legal ramifications and nuts and bolts of maritime warfare.

Of course, the precedence in regards to commercial shipping operations during time of war had been set and refined over hundreds of years and were well understood. Even global war and ocean wide operations were nothing new.

As an example. During the war of 1812 the Royal Navy blockaded the entire East Coast of the United States at the same time as strangling all French ports and shipping. This inevitably involved interfering with shipping of other nations. The legal implications were awesome and also had to be dealt with.

Lloyds of London were not about to close their doors for the duration.

David

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by motto

Even global war and ocean wide operations were nothing new. As an example. During the war of 1812 the Royal Navy blockaded the entire East Coast of the United States at the same time as strangling all French ports and shipping. This inevitably involved interfering with shipping of other nations.

...meanwhile Napoleon blockaded the Baltic to deny the British their lucrative trade routes, thus interfering with even more nations shipping!

An even earlier example of global maritime warfare/commerce would be the various East India Trading Companies - British, Dutch, Portuguese, Danish, French, Swedish - who roamed the world's seas in heavily armed gunships, plying their trade and conquering new empires as they went, and routinely engaging eachother on the high seas to defend their sales territory! This went on for a couple of centuries, with the British EITC ultimately prevailing - hence the British Empire, with a few crumbs left for the rest to colonize!

As you say David it's an interesting thread, although we seem to have digressed a bit from CMP shipments!

[David Dunlop]

With regards to Dutch shipping during WW2, my Mum travelled in a convoy from Liverpool to Algeria aboard the SS Volendam in late 1941 early 1942. She was with the NAAFI at the time.

With regards to the wartime CMP activity across the Pacific, firstly, 'Holden' is associated with General Motors in Australia. Where were Ford's operations based? Also, did most sea traffic arrive at one particular port, or was it spread around as much as possible? I seem to remember reading about a large military base somewhere on the West Coast of Australia where a number of CMP vehicles were abandoned after the war. Not sure I ever heard why.

David

[Keith Webb]

Ford were based (and still are there) in Geelong which is a port city not far from Melbourne. The main General Motors Holden factory was at Fishermens Bend which is adjacent to Melbourne. GM-H assembled CMPs in most Australian capital cities. They also had greater body building facilities and were responsible for most of the locally built GS bodies as well as a lot of the specialised bodies on CMPs here.
Ford did build some of the specialised bodies for their own chassis such as No8 and 9 gun tractors, while GM-H also built their own version, which may seem strange for small production runs but they had integral cabs which had different floors.

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

With regards to Dutch shipping during WW2, my Mum travelled in a convoy from Liverpool to Algeria aboard the SS Volendam in late 1941 early 1942. She was with the NAAFI at the time.

With regards to the wartime CMP activity across the Pacific, firstly, 'Holden' is associated with General Motors in Australia. Where were Ford's operations based? Also, did most sea traffic arrive at one particular port, or was it spread around as much as possible? I seem to remember reading about a large military base somewhere on the West Coast of Australia where a number of CMP vehicles were abandoned after the war. Not sure I ever heard why.

David

[Mike Cecil]

Regarding the proportion of the world's Merchant Fleet operated by each country at the outbreak of war in 1939, I had a quick look at Roger Jordan's excellent reference "The Worlds Merchant Fleets 1939", and the relative proportions of pages devoted to each country is interesting. The pages are all formatted the same way, so the numbers of ships in each country's fleet is very, very roughly proportional to the number of pages in the book devoted to each country.

Denmark: 12 pages
Finland: 8 pages
GB & Dominions: 119 pages (!) (Unfortunately, the countries are all mixed in alpha order of the shipping company name, so impossible to easily differentiate by each Empire country)
Greece: 22 pages
Norway: 50 pages
Netherlands: 21 pages
USA: 55 pages

By contrast, The main Axis countries:

Germany: 32 pages
Japan: 21 pages
Italy: 22 pages


Mike C

[Mike Cecil]

Hi David,

""With regards to Dutch shipping during WW2, my Mum travelled in a convoy from Liverpool to Algeria aboard the SS Volendam in late 1941 early 1942. She was with the NAAFI at the time.""

Algeria was Vichy French, I think, and was not invaded until the Op Torch landings in November 1942?

If she travelled in the SS Volendam in early 1942, maybe she was headed to Suez on convoy WS16, via Freetown and Cape Town?

Mike C