Radar Van for Corowa event

[Jan Thompson]

KVE was donated a Canadian WW2 Radar Van. It is now back in Sydney and John Oldenmenger has started to look at the restoration project and what is now required.

We have been donated 10 750X20 tyres so we have all the tyres plus 2 spares. We still require 1 spare rim for a tyre this size. if anyone can help please let us know.

When rubbing the van down it was army green on the chassis but it is yellow on the body which indicates it was Airforce. It is possible it was used by the PMG.

Today Dutchie has pressure washed the hubs, springs and wheel arches and has also greased the spring shackles and shock absorbers. The main frame underneath is in excellent condition and the underbody is OK.
The rims were galvanised so there is no need for sandblasting. Any surface rust will be treated and painted.

The original parking light brackets are still on the trailer. We do require army style military taillights eg jeep. If anyone can help by donating these it would be greatly appreciated

After our KVE meeting on the 17th August we will organise a plan for the continued restoration and decide on a day where we would like people to come and help strip out the inside of the van and decide on the final restoration plus fit out inside the Van.

In the back of the van there was a air conditioner fitted when used by the Lithgow City Council. At this stage we will put some glass as a window and cover with wire mesh. Dutchie is going to get 2 covers for the air vent holes along with 2 more wheel clamps and 2 more wheel nuts.

There are some brackets on the roof and he will forward pictures so we can ask some of the experts about what these would have been used for.

Another thing we require is lots of sikaflex so if anyone can donate any this would be appreciated. We already have a paint donation from a KVE member which is greatly appreciated.

[Jan Thompson]

Here are 2 more photos taken today. We are interested in what information people can supply us on these Radar Vans

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Jan Thompson

There are some brackets on the roof and he will forward pictures so we can ask some of the experts about what these would have been used for.

Hi Jan,

The brackets on the roof are probably where the mast was attached and folded down for transport. Take a look at the attached here, pages 8, 9 and 10. Page 10 shows the trailer we have, with mast erected.
http://www.ieee.ca/canrev/cr69/IEEEC...eview_no69.pdf

regards Richard

[Richard Farrant]

Another link to this radar system showing the accompanying trailer and the FWD generator trucks that made up the set.
http://www.rcsigs.ca/ViewItem/1116/

[Jan Thompson]

Here is a picture of the roof.

[Richard Farrant]

Here is a short history of this type of trailer that I put together for an article in a recent KVE News :

The history of the trailer

The trailer was one of two consigned to a GL3( c ) radar convoy built in Canada. GL3( c ) was an Anti-Aircraft Gun Laying Radar system, the first mobile microwave frequency radar to be mass produced anywhere in the world. It was originated and designed in the UK, but also developed in Canada and the USA simultaneously. The trailer that KVE have been given was the Zone Position Indicator, the other trailer of a different design was the Accurate Position Finder. The convoy sets consisted of one each of these trailers and two FWD HAR1 towing trucks fitted with Cummins powered generators, also a CMP Chevrolet C60L for carrying equipment.

The trailer was built by Truck Engineering of Canada, at Woodstock. The equipment was produced by Research Enterprises Ltd of Leaside, Toronto to a Supply Mech Contract no. 2828. By December 1942, 314 convoy sets had been delivered, much of these sent to the UK for AA gun sites. Due to manufacturing problems this system was not able to be built in time in the UK and they were reliant on Canada to produce them. By the end of 1943 a total of 667 radar convoy sets had been made by REL under the Lend Lease agreement.

[Jan Thompson]

Dutchy has continued work on the Radar Van found the following on a plate underneath the van:
Truck Engineering Limited
Trailers and Truck Equipment
Woodstock Ontario
Model 22FW
Serial number 759

He has put some rust converter on the bottom and the wheel arches. Parking break arm needs welding. One side has tyres on and he has taken the other tyres are off and will be back on next week.

[hrpearce]

Once all the tyres are on I need to know the height from the ground to the bottom of the door and the width of the door. The length of the van and centre of door from either end would also help thank you.

[Jan Thompson]

Dutchy phoned me today and mentioned the wheels are back on the Radar Van and Laurie Winnie donated 3 clamps. We are now up to Stage 2.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Jan Thompson

Here are 2 more photos taken today. We are interested in what information people can supply us on these Radar Vans

Jan, see THIS THREAD from 2005 on this particular trailer.

[Jan Thompson]

Thanks Tony I had a look at the thread you mentioned today.

It sounds like there were a few people who have been interested in it recently so we feel very fortunate to have it and once it is done up it will be used as our Site Office at Corowa. At this stage we should have it for the 2015 event.

[alamotex]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Jan, see THIS THREAD from 2005 on this particular trailer.

Hi Tony I guess this is the radar trailer you once owned and the subject of e-mails we exchanged in 2005. Nice to see that the piece I wrote for the IEEE Canadian Review issue #69 has been cited in Richard Farrant's post #3. If approached, I will try to assist the project organisers. All the best, mate, Cheers Brian Mendes ( Canada )

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by alamotex

Hi Tony I guess this is the radar trailer you once owned and the subject of e-mails we exchanged in 2005. Nice to see that the piece I wrote for the IEEE Canadian Review issue #69 has been cited in Richard Farrant's post #3. If approached, I will try to assist the project organisers. All the best, mate, Cheers Brian Mendes ( Canada )

Hi Brian,
It is all my fault ...... I was the one who spotted the trailer in a thread on here amongst some other vehicles and as a committee member of KVE, knew there was interest in having our own site office for the Corowa event ....... the ball started to roll ! I think the intention is to try and maintain the outward appearance, but internally fitted out to suit the groups purpose. Jan will no doubt be on here at some point.
Your article was brilliant, up until then I had found very little info. There are several more of these trailers in the locality of where this one was.
regards Richard

[Jan Thompson]

Hi Brian
Wonderful to hear from you. Any help we can get would be greatly appreciated. I am the Vice President of the Australian Ex-Military Vehicle Collectors Society and last night at our meeting I talked about the Radar Van and gave a few people the information from the IEEE Canadian Review issue #69 as it contains some very interesting information. Can I use this article in our AMVCS newsletter and our KVE Newsletter as Richard is the editor of the KVE newsletter please?

One of the AMVCS members offered us some things from his collection including a 50 foot aerial. We would like more information on internal and external items.

[alamotex]

Hi Jan You may certainly reprint all or sections of the IEEE Canadian Review article. I would expect you to credit the source. I would like to correct the statement which implies that the GL III(c) AA gunlaying radar was a Canadian built version of the British GL 3B. The accurate statement should read that it was a Canadian development based upon a set of British design specifications for a GL 3 radar. There was significant technical cooperation with both the British and US Radar Research Establishments throughout the project.

Apart from a PPI display console, I am unaware of any original cabin interior components having been located in OZ. You might consider creating a photo gallery for the cabin interior. I do have some digital images that you may wish to look at. I take it that you want it to serve as a site office at the Corowa event.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by alamotex

Hi Jan You may certainly reprint all or sections of the IEEE Canadian Review article. I would expect you to credit the source. I would like to correct the statement which implies that the GL III(c) AA gunlaying radar was a Canadian built version of the British GL 3B. The accurate statement should read that it was a Canadian development based upon a set of British design specifications for a GL 3 radar. There was significant technical cooperation with both the British and US Radar Research Establishments throughout the project.

Apart from a PPI display console, I am unaware of any original cabin interior components having been located in OZ. You might consider creating a photo gallery for the cabin interior. I do have some digital images that you may wish to look at. I take it that you want it to serve as a site office at the Corowa event.

Hi Brian,
Jan is having to rush off to a meeting and asked me to respond to you. My fault regarding inaccurate statement, thanks for correcting me. A photo gallery of the trailer internally and externally as they were originally would be an excellent idea. As it will be used as a store for display boards and other kit during off season and with office accommodation as well, there would be no way any original equipment could be fitted internally. At present we are loaned a site office from the local council, but that cannot always be depended on and to be able to store our kit within the trailer is an asset.

Thank you for the permission to use your article, I will give you and the periodical full credit. If you send me your email address via a PM I will make sure our newsletter is sent to you. Many thanks.
regards, Richard

[Chevrolet 41]

Hello Jan,

Here is a link to a local Adelaide lad I know (Andrew Tostevin) who has 2 of those radar trailers;

http://users.on.net/~tosty/3MK7-RADA...arTrailer.html

Perhaps there is some useful info for the restoration.

Cheers

Chris.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Chevrolet 41

Hello Jan,

Here is a link to a local Adelaide lad I know (Andrew Tostevin) who has 2 of those radar trailers;

http://users.on.net/~tosty/3MK7-RADA...arTrailer.html

Perhaps there is some useful info for the restoration.

Cheers

Chris.

Thanks Chris,
I have just looked at Andrew's website and read the story. I am afraid those are post war British trailers, the one that KVE has acquired is the wartime Canadian GL3(c), the trailer looks quite different.
Thanks for the link though, very interesting.

regards Richard

[hrpearce]

Are there any recent pictures of the van.
I still need the measurements so I can make steps or a ramp.

[Jan Thompson]

We are hoping to have a few working bees to get the radar van prepared for 2015. We have tyres so now we can get the measurements to Robert for the steps. I will speak to the person who is looking after it and ask him to provide the details.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Jan Thompson

We would like more information on internal and external items.

Here's some info on the large external item at the front:

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Here's some info on the large external item at the front:


Attachment 64596

Attachment 64597

Attachment 64598

Hi Tony,
This Blitz was not the designated towing vehicle for the two radar trailers. Each outfit consisted of two FWD trucks and trailers, and the Blitz which carried equipment and cables. See the article I put in KVE News last year, and another which Brian Mendes from Canada wrote.

Nice to see one of these has survived.

regards, Richard

[Tony Wheeler]

Thanks Richard, I read Brian's article previously but I must have missed yours somehow. Can you tell me which edition it appeared in?

Also are you able to decipher the REL data plate for me? I didn't know there was an extra truck, I had assumed it was a towing vehicle like these.

[alamotex]

Tony This photo of the parked ZPI radar trailers hooked up to the Chev towing vehicles is very misleading. Terry Hanes who was one of the Canadians who went to OZ in 1944 as one of the technical support detachment assures me that these Chev tow vehicles were intended for use as cable trucks. Two FWD trucks per convoy were assigned as the prime movers for both the ZPI and APF cabins. The trucks shown in the AWM photo did not have the power or traction to tow either of the radar cabins. Terry can only guess what the Aussies had in mind.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Thanks Richard, I read Brian's article previously but I must have missed yours somehow. Can you tell me which edition it appeared in?

Also are you able to decipher the REL data plate for me? I didn't know there was an extra truck, I had assumed it was a towing vehicle like these.

Hi Tony,
It was not in the issue which had Brian's article, but the previous one:
http://corowaswim-in.org/docs/Corowa...May%202013.pdf on page 23.
I gathered info on the vehicles and trailers. They were all supplied on the same Canadian S/M contract number, both to Australia and UK. I think the late David Hayward brought the subject up on here some years ago. There is one of the FWD HAR trucks in preservation in the UK, I wonder if any have survived in Australia?

As Brian says, the Chev would not have been a heavy enough towing vehicle for the trailers, I have seen the photo before, but as it looks like a storage area, it may not be significant.

regards, Richard

[Richard Farrant]

Here is a photo of the restored FWD HAR tractor which was part of the radar outfit. This one is Truck No.3 on the REL plate. This was taken at the Great Dorset Steam Fair last year.

[Richard Farrant]

Here is a thread from 9 years ago that should explain more, especially the later posts.
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ghlight=SM2828

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

As Brian says, the Chev would not have been a heavy enough towing vehicle for the trailers, I have seen the photo before, but as it looks like a storage area, it may not be significant.

The other reason I assumed they were the towing vehicles (aside from actually being hooked up to the trailers!) is that they are C60Ls fitted with 16" wheels.

I can think of several reasons why CMPs might finish up towing these trailers in Australia so I'm yet to be convinced they didn't. However I don't know much about the subject so I shall read up on it before engaging in too much speculation.

BTW what kind of trailer is this one:

[alamotex]

I am not even sure that it is a radar trailer. Its not a GL 1 Tx or Rx cabin nor is it a GL 2...Could possibly be some kind of GCI. Have seen mobile command caravans or radio communications vans that look like that.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Ghost

I have a REL blitz as well in the back yard.

Regards
Robert

The data plate looks to be a 1941 Cab 12 C60L one... what shape are the vents in yours?