M38Cdn Fender Signal Light Wiring

[Peter Phillips]

Could someone supply me with pictures of the wire routing from the signal light to the harness on both front fenders please. I'm trying to get an idea of what the finished product looked like. I was talking to fellow member this morning about the right side and the lack of hood cutout; was there a best practice to prevent chaffing the wiring or is it a moot point due to the distance from the hood to fender? Or did a clip protect it? If you'd rather email or text pics directly, PM me and I'll give you my contact info. Thanks in advance for any insights.

[Wayne Hingley]

Hi Peter. I don't think the M38's had signal lights originally, so unless there is an "official" modification document from the CF, I think it's up to your judgement as to what fits best. I could be wrong....

I have seen signal lights installed in the grill where the BO's are located, if you prefer that option.

[rob love]

Wayne: There were official installation instructions for all the SMPs and trailers to have signal lights. I recall the wiring was a much thinner white wire with black trace, and not the usual quality SMP wire.

[David Dunlop]

Peter.

Sorry, not able to post photos, but both fenders were set up in a similar fashion.

Both front signal lights were standard bullet shaped marker lamps with the blackout covers removed and special amber lenses substituted. These lenses were made by Dominion and one other company and are very next to impossible to find these days.

Left front lamp was mounted forward of the blackout driving lamp assembly using a large hole for the marker lamp bolt with a smaller hole immediately in front of it for the locking stud. These holes are close to the front edge of the fender and roughly across from the hood latch The wire on this side came straight back through the blackout lamp guard assembly and was then run parallel to the blackout driving lamp wiring, under the same hold down clip and then a sharp right turn under the hood.

On the right fender the two holes for the marker lamp will also be found near the front edge of the fender, across from the hood latch. The wiring ran straight back to a point roughly equal to the blackout driving light, a wiring clip was added at that point to the fender and the wire did a sharp left turn under the hood. No cutout made for it in the hood at all.

At the back end of the M38, the existing factory left rear lamp was used for signals as it already contained a dual filament Stop/Brake lamp. The right rear lamp assembly had no such lamp, so two things usually took place.

The more common was to add a single large round red commercial lamp (about 4 - 5 inch diameter) directly under the right rear corner of the jeep - fitted into the rear cross member - and this was used for the turn signal function. Alternatively, I has run across several M38's over the years that had the factory original right rear lamp assembly removed and replaced with a left side unit, and it was wired for full brake. stop and turn functions.

Two different mechanical signal switches were used on the steering column. One with the indicator lamp in the main body of the switch. The second with a green indicator lamp on the end of the switch arm. Typically, in military service, the indicator lamp was removed. WAYYY TOOO BRIGHT when it starts to flash!

Hope this helps and perhaps someone can add photos for you as well.


David

[rob love]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Both front signal lights were standard bullet shaped marker lamps with the blackout covers removed and special amber lenses substituted. These lenses were made by Dominion and one other company and are very next to impossible to find these days.

Dave:

Are you talking about the lense shown in the photo below? They were a mil-spec lense (2540-00-930-2044) intended to convert the blackout markers into turn signals. However, most of the pre-67 Jeeps that I saw simply had the blackouts with the guts removed in their original lenses. The NSN for the lense did not come into being until April of 1966.

At the back end of the M38, the existing factory left rear lamp was used for signals as it already contained a dual filament Stop/Brake lamp

The reason that lamp could be used was because it had two light bulbs for service drive...one was the marker (bulb 623 or possibly a 1251) and the other was for brake (1683 if I recall correctly). While the bulbs did in fact usually have dual filiments, that was to enable them to work on 24 volt. They only had one contact at the base of the bulbs.

The large round commercial light added to the rear right was only a single bulb, so there was no right rear marker light. The addition of a left taillight to the right side meant you did not have a blackout brake light on that side. The small blackout brake lamp was standard on the Cdn2 and Cdn3, but in service most mechanics did not worry about the lack of a right marker light. We were exempt from the provincial highway traffic acts so unless the CFTO called for it, we wouldn't bother.

Signal arms were usually either do-ray 999 or signal stat 800. For those who are missing their little green lense for the signal stat, there is a seller on ebay who has been selling them for years: http://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-Vintage-...2OaTCQ&vxp=mtr

[Wayne Hingley]

Rob & David: thanks for the additional info. I was never sure if my 1953 M38A1 CDN had the signal lights added in service or post service. But it sounds like the M38's & M38A1's underwent the same modification orders to add the lights. Mine is exactly as you both describe, and it has the Do-ray 999 signal arm that Rob mentioned.

As far as the light lens cover: mine just had the blackouts with the insides removed.

[David Dunlop]

Rob. Those are indeed the amber lenses. My M38CDN was equipped with them when surplussed at Kapyong in 1976. A couple of years earlier, at the big M38CDN Auction at Shilo, most of the vehicles there I recall were also so equipped, but some did have the modified original markers as you described.

I kept the big amber lenses and found a set of stripped original lenses and used amber coloured bulbs in them. Just looked more 'military' to me, and as you say was the norm until the arrival of the amber lenses in the 1960's.

Hope you are not snowed in yet out there tonight, Rob. That Penguin might be right handy this winter!


David

[Christian Shoebridge]

Peter
i have an extra set of marker lamps with the amber lenses as in the above pic.if you want them and have trouble locating let me know and il dig them up for you

merry christmas happy new year

Christian
52 m38
53 m100
43 WLC

[Peter Phillips]

Originally Posted by Christian Shoebridge

Peter
i have an extra set of marker lamps with the amber lenses as in the above pic.if you want them and have trouble locating let me know and il dig them up for you

merry christmas happy new year

Christian
52 m38
53 m100
43 WLC

Thanks for the offer Christian but I bought a set of NOS ones recently and have them mounted. I can't seem to be able to get picytures on this forum for some reason or else I would've shown the end result.

Cheers, Pete!