19-Set Vario/Aerial Base Mounting Plate

[David Dunlop]

Can anyone provide a correct ID for this mounting plate?

I have seen it, or something very similar, in use on a 19-Set installed in an MB/GPW, and it also looks like something used in the 19-Set Installation in a Mk I Carrier.

I am trying to wrap my head around how it is fastened to the top of the 19-Set Transceiver Case. If it used one or both of the PSU mounting plates on the left top of the case, does that mean the right hand end of the mounting plate is free floating?

Also, in an exposited environment like the two vehicles mentioned, it would make sense for the canvas variometer cover to be used, which would be a simple enough installation. However, in an exposed environment, it would also make sense to have the Canvas Cover for the wireless set itself also installed, but can that be done with this mount sitting on top of it?

Lastly, if we can get a proper ID for this mounting Plate, can Hanno go in and correct the title of this thread to match?

Thanks,

David

[Chris Suslowicz]

Plate and Bracket Assembly No.(whatever), I think.

It's the general-purpose top plate for demountable sets - usually on Carrier No.25 or similar - and some vehicle stations.

It attaches to to top of the set with four screws into the flat plates on the set case. The variometer is attached with three bolts from underneath (and the usual packing piece). The multitude of pre-drilled holes are symmetrically arranged so you can use it for left or right-handed installation in a 2-set vehicle (e.g. LCV).

I've got one somewhere but it's currently inaccessible due to the (completed) house move and a pulled muscle which means I've effectively walled off about two thirds of the new house with 100+ bananana boxes that I cannot currently lift.

Photo's and measurements available once I can shift stuff around.

[David Dunlop]

Thanks, Chris.

This photo is the second one I have seen, making the one a friend has here in Winnipeg, less of an oddball now. When he first ran across his, the Vario was missing, the Control Box looked 19-Set related, but the Aerial Base did not match up any known 19-Set A-Set Aerial Bases we had seen (this was some 30 years ago). Slowly things eventually fall into place.

By the way. Try not to lead such an exciting life! No point in having wonderful wireless set stuff if you can't pick it up to play with.

David

[David Dunlop]

My friend here in town has checked his set and the aerial base is apparently an 'AERIALBASE No 10 Mk II' with ZA14172 and PC825740 also cast into the rubber. The Control Unit is a No.2 Mk II, which if the correct model, also raises the question of how the unused 12-pin socket was protected from the elements. Were protective caps ever issued for these things?

Also looks like four cheesehead screws hold the mounting plate in place as Chris noted.

David

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

My friend here in town has checked his set and the aerial base is apparently an 'AERIALBASE No 10 Mk II' with ZA14172 and PC825740 also cast into the rubber. The Control Unit is a No.2 Mk II, which if the correct model, also raises the question of how the unused 12-pin socket was protected from the elements. Were protective caps ever issued for these things?

Also looks like four cheesehead screws hold the mounting plate in place as Chris noted.

David

Aerial Base No.10 replaced Aerial Base No.8, and had a metal clamp (two strips riveted together with a wingnut, as used on Aerial Base No.11) instead of the spring wire clip of the No.8. Aerial Base No. 10 Mk.II replaced that clamp with a one-piece wrap-around clamp with wingnut one side (to operate the clamp) and knurled nut the other side to allow an aerial feeder to be connected. The rubber insulator was also changed slightly: the Mk.1 met the steel mounting flange at a sharp angle, and tended to separate, so the Mk.II had a slight concave curve at the boundary to give a better bond between the steel and rubber.

The Control Unit No.2 would have a 12-way cable fitted in the spare socket. This would be fixed to the vehicle (in e.g. a jeep) and run to a permanently fitted Control Unit No.1 in the front of the vehicle. If the set was being used dismounted from the vehicle, it would be under cover (building or tent), so there would be no need to protect the spare socket.

I think the securing screws for the plate are standard 2BA x 1/2-in cheesehead. (Hex bolts were also used as it's hard to get at the ones under the variometer.)

Chris.

(On that note, it's heading for Oh God o'clock here (0045Z) and I'm going to bed. Goodnight.)

:-)>

[Patrick Johnson]

Hi David,
As the owner of the WS19 set pictured above I can shed some light into the plate's identification and how it is fastened to the Transceiver case. A look on the underside of this plate yields the following original description spray-painted on the right side of the plate: Plates, Mounting No. 1 - ZA-10465.
On the top of the Transceiver case are two rectangular registering plates, each comprising two sets of three holes in a V-shaped configuration. Correspondingly, on the underside of the mounting plate are four "saddles", each holding a small threaded bolt with a clever retaining ring which keeps it in place. On this example only three of the original four mounting bolts remain, so at some point one of the bolts was removed and never replaced. The saddles with their extended bolt heads register perfectly with the middle tapped hole in each of the four mounting hole groupings. It's a simple operation to hand tighten the bolts into the top of the case, until the final couple of turns when a wrench would be used to firmly tighten down the plate to the case. I've also photographed the monogram found on the bolt heads holding the aerial and Variometer in place, as well as the small round black ink stamp of unknown significance. To definitively answer your question David, yes, the right 1/3 of the plate is truly cantilevered beyond the registering plates of the case.
Hope this helps,
Patrick

[Chris Suslowicz]

Ah, excellent! My plate is almost certainly a later version than that (or has been given an all-over repaint post-WW2). It's also missing all of the bolts, but now I know what they look like I can make some up to suit. The missing bolt on your plate may be deliberate - the one under the front of the variometer is difficult to access so may have been omitted (or they assembled the variometer to the plate and found they could not then fit the bolt).

The circular stamp is almost certainly an inspection mark.

Thanks for posting the photographs, very useful.

Chris.

[David Dunlop]

Thanks for posting your photos, Patrick. They indeed answer a huge number of questions about what we now know are Plates, Mounting No. 1, complete with their ZA-Number.

Chris is correct, the small black circular stamp is an inspection mark from whatever factory made these plates. It should say INSPEC MECH around the rim with the number of the actual inspector in the middle. For certain, RCA did not make these plates as their stamp would also have been present - another black ring with RCA in the middle.

Interesting that the underside of the plate is unfinished, other than the either cadmium or zinc plating. I think I spotted a bit of paint overspray on one of the underside edges and am wondering now if the normal state of these plates was actually plain plated metal, with no factory painting, like the Seating Plates No. 4 used to mount the variometer on the Truck and Ground Installation Carriers. I have a call into my friend here in Winnipeg to check his plate in that regard.

Nice shot of the connector between the variometer and aerial base as well. Whenever you have a chance, can you take some measurements from it for me? The diameter of the cable itself and the length end to end where it stops inside the end connectors. Interesting that two different end connectors are shown. I suspect the one at the aerial base end was a replacement at some point. It is a solder type and would take a bit more work to install. The one at the vario end is a crimp on style and, I think, another Ross-Courtney product. Probably the original factory fitting. At the aerial end, is that a small yellow collar hiding up by the end connector. Sometimes these have a part number ID in black letters printed on them but on smaller cables the ID information is usually not applied.

I was expecting the usual three BSF countersunk slot head screws to mount the variometer assembly. Interesting they went with the BSF hex head bolts, and I notice they are all the thinner hex head type, not the more common fat head jobs.

Are the four retained fasteners that mount the plate assembly to the top of the transceiver slotted cheese head screws, or also hex head bolts?

As I said, Patrick, a whack of info in your photos! Thanks again for posting.

Now we need to get the title of this thread changed to read:

Plates, Mounting No. 1


David

[David Dunlop]

Just got a response back from my friend here in Winnipeg about his Plates, Mounting No.1 and he confirms an unpainted underside. The top of his has been painted flat black by hand at some time. One can make out some brush marks on the larger surfaces apparently and some drips down the edge on one side, so his might have been all plated metal originally. Chips in the paint show plated metal beneath and no sign of a primer.

Thin head hex bolts used for all three items attached to the plate.

Chris: I have seen those little spring retainers on the four hex bolts BA No.2 that bolt the assembly to the top of the transceiver used with some other piece of equipment at one time, but I am beggared if I can remember what piece of equipment! Whenever you get around to tracking your Plates, Mounting No.1 down, can you spec out these four BA No.2 hex bolts for us? Total shaft length, length of thread and how far from the head the retaining clip slot has been cut?

When I think of it, it makes sense they used thin head hex bolts to mount this Plates assembly. Not enough room around the variometer to get at cheese head slotted screw with a screw driver. Would think one has to be careful tightening them, however. With the shaft cut for the retaining clips I could see the bolts shearing easily at that point if you had some knuckle dragger working the spanner!

David

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Just got a response back from my friend here in Winnipeg about his Plates, Mounting No.1 and he confirms an unpainted underside. The top of his has been painted flat black by hand at some time. One can make out some brush marks on the larger surfaces apparently and some drips down the edge on one side, so his might have been all plated metal originally. Chips in the paint show plated metal beneath and no sign of a primer.

Thin head hex bolts used for all three items attached to the plate.

Chris: I have seen those little spring retainers on the four hex bolts BA No.2 that bolt the assembly to the top of the transceiver used with some other piece of equipment at one time, but I am beggared if I can remember what piece of equipment! Whenever you get around to tracking your Plates, Mounting No.1 down, can you spec out these four BA No.2 hex bolts for us? Total shaft length, length of thread and how far from the head the retaining clip slot has been cut?

When I think of it, it makes sense they used thin head hex bolts to mount this Plates assembly. Not enough room around the variometer to get at cheese head slotted screw with a screw driver. Would think one has to be careful tightening them, however. With the shaft cut for the retaining clips I could see the bolts shearing easily at that point if you had some knuckle dragger working the spanner!

David

I suspect the retaining clips are the same as those used on the WS19 control units, and possibly the supply unit retaining screw. That may be a suitable source of patterns for the clip, although they all use "fillister head" screws.

My plate came as a bare plate, no screws or clips.

All the early/unissued mounting hardware that I've seen has been 'bright', i.e. unpainted (plated) steel. I suspect it was painted to suit the application prior to installation. The post-WW2 hardware seems to have been supplied in green finish.

I'm somewhat surprised that lock washers are not fitted to the various bolts.

(My suggestion of "Plate & Bracket Assy No.1" came from Wireless for the Warrior Volume 2, where it is used throughout. It may be a mistaken designation for the bracket used for the "Condenser X5, 5kV" used with the RF Amplifier No.2, but I'm not sure of this. I wish we had more "Comm. Inst." EMERs (i.e. more than zero) available for the WW2 kit.)

Chris.
(Still gap-filling the "Satchel, Signals" collection - I currently have numbers 1, 2, 3, either 4 or 5, 6, 7, 8, 10 and 12! I have no idea what went in No.8, possibly a test meter of some sort. There are several variations of the No.1 and at least a couple of the No.2 satchel.)

Chris.

[David Dunlop]

Chris.

I will chat with my friend here in town and see if we can get some specs off of one of his retaining bolts. He is missing one himself (his Plates Assembly, not him) and I was chatting earlier today with Mark at British Fastners out your way. He can make up a small batch of these BA2 hex bolts no problem, if he has the right specs. Can't help with the wire spring retainers, however.

David

[Chris Suslowicz]

It's possible that the "Plate & Bracket Assembly" is an earlier version of the "Plates, Mounting", since the drawings in WftW Volume 2 do not show the rectangular notch at the left hand end of the plate. (This was needed to provide clearance for the very long (wrap-around) strap used with Carrier No.25, which started at the LHS of the supply unit, went under the carrier, around the set, under the "Plates, Mounting" and mated with an adapter plate(1) fixed to the top of the supply unit.)

I think this plate may also have been used to fit the 'double-sized' Control Unit No.3 on top of the set in the Daimler Scout Car (though it's possible that a shorter plate or even a wooden block was used).

Chris.

(1) If anyone has one of the adapter plates, shaped like the profile of a house with four holes in the 'roof' part to match the ones in the top of the supply unit, and two keyhole slots to match the adjustable plate on the clamping strap, I'd be very interested. Just the measurements would do! (The plate is necessary because the keyhole slots in the supply unit - intended to fit it on top of the WS19 for Universal Carrier use - point the wrong way for Carrier No.25.)

[David Dunlop]

With regards to the captive screws used with the Plates, Mounting No.1, it is possible the retaining clips used on them are known as 'Circlips' and as Chris suggested, they are indeed used as part of the mounting hardware for the series of Wireless Set No. 19 Control Boxes. They are listed as: Circlips No. 2, ZA 14719 and are used in conjunction with Screws, Captive No.7. I have yet to find any specifications on these particular screws.

Screws, Captive No.5 are used to lock the PSU into it's case and Screws, Captive No.4 are used to mount the 19-Set Transceiver into it's case. In both of these items, the screws are held captive by first threading through their respective face plates. No retaining clip is fastened around the screw shaft.

David

[Tim Bell]

I have one of these plates... no bolts... if someone is making the bolts and the retaining spring clips, I would definitely be interested in a set.

Long shot here...

Is it possible that when the WS38 AFV was mounted on top of the WS19 in a Tank, it would have been onto one of these plates?

Wondering if I should be installing this plate when I put the WS19 into my Firefly in a couple of years time.

EDIT - Is it possible these bolts/screws, are the same as those which hold the WS19 control boxes to the back plates? The spring clips appear to be.. as per this pic...



Cheers

Tim

[David Dunlop]

Hello Tim. Yes that could be one and the same clip, though not totally certain at this point. Does the bottom of your plate have the same identification stencilled on it as Patrick's and the one here in Winnipeg?

So far, we seem to be aware of two variations on this item, these two in Canada are one and a second one Chris has ID'd from WFTW. If they are an evolution from one to the other in some way, or two distinctly different plates intended for differing specific usages, we are not yet certain.

It does not help at the moment I am without a working scanner. In Bill Gregg's 'Canadian Military Vehicle Profile Series'. Profile No. 5 for the Carrier, Universal, No.2 MkII*, there is a Ford of Canada photograph (U.C.W. 68) showing a plate installation along the same lines, mounted on top of a Mk II 19-Set. This plate has no folded edges front and rear and seems to be equipped with carry straps similar to those found on the larger Carriers No. 23. Quite different from the ZA-10465 ones here in Canada, but Chris will have to look at the Gregg photo to determine if this version matches what is in WFTW, or is yet another variation.

Interestingly, there is a Canadian Army publication dated October 1944, that provides comprehensive coverage of all the 19-Set equipment in use at that time. This plate is not listed at all, nor any other like it for that matter. Yet two show up postwar in Canada, one out of Minto Armoury here in Winnipeg and I am not certain of the history of Patricks down East.

The ZA-10465 plate might be late/post war. Not sure where the ZA Number would place it time wise. There is a photo in one of my books somewhere of an MB/GPW with a 19-Set in a back corner and one of these plate setups is installed on top of the set. Haven't been able to retrace the damn book yet to see if that photo will help clarify, or muddy, the waters further.

David

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Hello Tim. Yes that could be one and the same clip, though not totally certain at this point. Does the bottom of your plate have the same identification stencilled on it as Patrick's and the one here in Winnipeg?

So far, we seem to be aware of two variations on this item, these two in Canada are one and a second one Chris has ID'd from WFTW. If they are an evolution from one to the other in some way, or two distinctly different plates intended for differing specific usages, we are not yet certain.

It does not help at the moment I am without a working scanner. In Bill Gregg's 'Canadian Military Vehicle Profile Series'. Profile No. 5 for the Carrier, Universal, No.2 MkII*, there is a Ford of Canada photograph (U.C.W. 68) showing a plate installation along the same lines, mounted on top of a Mk II 19-Set. This plate has no folded edges front and rear and seems to be equipped with carry straps similar to those found on the larger Carriers No. 23. Quite different from the ZA-10465 ones here in Canada, but Chris will have to look at the Gregg photo to determine if this version matches what is in WFTW, or is yet another variation.

Interestingly, there is a Canadian Army publication dated October 1944, that provides comprehensive coverage of all the 19-Set equipment in use at that time. This plate is not listed at all, nor any other like it for that matter. Yet two show up postwar in Canada, one out of Minto Armoury here in Winnipeg and I am not certain of the history of Patricks down East.

The ZA-10465 plate might be late/post war. Not sure where the ZA Number would place it time wise. There is a photo in one of my books somewhere of an MB/GPW with a 19-Set in a back corner and one of these plate setups is installed on top of the set. Haven't been able to retrace the damn book yet to see if that photo will help clarify, or muddy, the waters further.

David

I had some success looking for "Round Wire Circlip" although most hits were for "snap rings". There are a couple of variations, supposedly used for shafts, and one of them is a dead ringer for the type used on the WS19 ancillaries.

If the "October 1944" publication is EMER Tels FZ256/3, it's a "Parts Identification List" and is nowhere near an exhaustive list, I'm afraid.

The stores codes (VAOS numbers) were issued in sequence as items were added "by Army Orders" as far as I'm aware. The early ones are an exception to this, since the original VAOS was simply an alphabetical list until they realised numbers would be much more efficient from a catalogue and ordering point of view and numbered the existing stores vocabularies sometime between 1938 and 1940. (That's why some very odd items (WW1 spark transmitters and early WW2 sets like the WS1 and WS11 have close stores numbers.)

WS19 MK.1 had stores code ZA.3155.
Satchel, Signals had stores code ZA.6292 despite being introduced 1n 1938.

WS19 Mk.II has stores code ZA.10178
WS19 MK.III has stores code ZA.10479

That would imply that the plate in question (ZA.10465) was introduced around the time the WS19 MK.III was being designed (developed during 1942, when the number would be allocated, issued in early 1943). It may well be a "general purpose" plate that replaced a variety of specific use items to reduce the number of individual stores items that needed to be carried.

It does not help matters that some items were allocated new numbers at various times!

Aha! Carrier, Set, No.25 is ZA.10463 so that plate would have been introduced at the same time, probably specifically for use with this carrier as it has the rectangular cut-out at the left-hand end to clear the end of the set retaining strap. An earlier plate would not need the notch as the clamping straps remained below the top of the set.

By the end of WW2 the numbering system had reached somewhere in the region of 30,000 (WS62) and was heading towards 50,000 in the 1950s when the NATO Stock Number took over. (The VAOS "Section" has survived as the "Domestic Management Code" or DMC to give storekeepers a clue as the where to look for stuff, so you now see Z1/nnnn-nn-nnn-nnnn (etc.) on items.)

Chris.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Tim Bell

I have one of these plates... no bolts... if someone is making the bolts and the retaining spring clips, I would definitely be interested in a set.

Ditto here. I need to check if they are 2BA or 3/16" BSF - Wireless for the Warrior drawings claim 2BA cheese head screws but there are "inconsistencies" in the drawing (it shows an early plate, with only 6 holes for the aerial base and no cutout for the strap, with an adapter plate and Larkspur J1 box).

I think we may have two varieties:

Plate & Bracket Assembly No.1, with one set of holes to take aerial base, variometer and a single sized control unit. Used with Carrier No.1 (or 21), and possibly with the (British) WS19HP, when it sits on top of the RF amplifier. (For that you need another bracket on the top of the supply unit to take the Condenser X5, 5kV for protection against overhead cables.)

There may well be other plates (e.g. one to take a double-size control unit (3 or 3A, I think) on top of the set for the Daimler Scout Car (Dingo)) with different sizes and hole patterns for other installations.

Plates, Mounting, No.1 with two sets of holes (some common to both orientations) and a rectangular notch for Carrier No.23. This can be used for LH or RH installations in, for example, an LCV.

There was an enormous amount of specialised mounting hardware (without considering limited field adaptations for special purposes or 'D' Day invasion vehicles), and most of it was probably smelted as the vehicles were sold off.

Originally Posted by Tim Bell

Long shot here...

Is it possible that when the WS38 AFV was mounted on top of the WS19 in a Tank, it would have been onto one of these plates?

Very, VERY unlikely. There would have been carriers specific to the WS38AFV manufactured - they made a couple of different types for the non-AFV install in the Churchill, after all - but they're not in the 1957 "Carriers Set Various" Illustrated Parts List, which is something of a bugger.

Originally Posted by Tim Bell

Wondering if I should be installing this plate when I put the WS19 into my Firefly in a couple of years time.

Definitely not. The plate is specifically for a demountable set in a 'B' vehicle. Your Firefly will have a presumably modified Sherman install, with the standard "Variometer mounted vertically and aerial feeder No.4 through the turret roof". There's a Centurion Mk.V install shown in WftW Vol 2 with two carriers, one on the supply unit to take the AFV supply unit and LF Amplifier, the second on the set to take the WS38AFV. This might be Carriers No.37 & 38 which appear to have the correct shape and late WW2 stores codes (ZA.26339 and ZA.26340 with later fixings). Firefly may well have used something entirely different.

Originally Posted by Tim Bell

EDIT - Is it possible these bolts/screws, are the same as those which hold the WS19 control boxes to the back plates? The spring clips appear to be..

No, the control unit screws are entirely different, and hex heads make a lot more sense for the mounting plate.

Regards,
Chris.

[Tim Bell]

Chris

Thanks for the info.

I got the plate to install with my WSC as indicated in Pamphlet "Wireless Sets No 19, 19 HP, 19/19, HP/19 in Trucks 15 CWT, 4x4 Personnel and Trucks, 15 CWT, Half-Tracked, Personnel", "Fitting Instructions", Jan 1945.

In this there are some line drawings which appear to show the plate mounted on top of the WS19 and also on top of the WS19 HP... and in the manual there are frequent references to the ATU and Control box being mounted with screws on...

Wireless Sets No 19, Plate, Mounting No 1.

Alas no ZA number given for this part.

However, I then acquired and fitted the Canadian WS9... so the plate never got used.

I will retain the plate though as in the short term, it may be the only way I do get to mount the WS38AFV... though initially to keep things simple (and given a lack of documentation and pictures) I will only install the standard WS19 set up... and also, a lack of suitable bolts to attach it to the top of the WS19 make using it a bit harder too.

Cheers

Tim

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Tim Bell

Chris

Thanks for the info.

I got the plate to install with my WSC as indicated in Pamphlet "Wireless Sets No 19, 19 HP, 19/19, HP/19 in Trucks 15 CWT, 4x4 Personnel and Trucks, 15 CWT, Half-Tracked, Personnel", "Fitting Instructions", Jan 1945.

In this there are some line drawings which appear to show the plate mounted on top of the WS19 and also on top of the WS19 HP... and in the manual there are frequent references to the ATU and Control box being mounted with screws on...

Wireless Sets No 19, Plate, Mounting No 1.

Alas no ZA number given for this part.

That will be in the "Installation Kit List", which in your case you have not got[1].

Does your plate have the L.H. notch and duplicated hole patterns?

The White Scout Car, being an open topped vehicle would be a good use for those plates, as any fixed aerial bases could be fed from the one on the plate with a standard feeder cable (plug that simulates an 'F' rod, length of P11 cable and a spade or ring terminal). Quick to connect or disconnect, and the whole set is demountable for ground use if required.

Originally Posted by Tim Bell

However, I then acquired and fitted the Canadian WS9... so the plate never got used.

I will retain the plate though as in the short term, it may be the only way I do get to mount the WS38AFV... though initially to keep things simple (and given a lack of documentation and pictures) I will only install the standard WS19 set up... and also, a lack of suitable bolts to attach it to the top of the WS19 make using it a bit harder too.

Cheers

Tim

Depending on the introduction date of the Firefly, you ought to be able to fit a WS19 Mk.III with Canadian supply unit (or the U.S. Mk.II with Eicor supply unit) and dispense with the battery selector box as they can both run off 24 volt 2 or 3 wire systems.

As for bolts, I think we need 2BA set screws, and I will work out the length necessary and order some - if they're under 1" long they're only 20p each.

I don't have a lathe right now (house move and hostile ex-family) so can't machine suitable grooves to make them captive screws.

The Part 0 EMER for the WS38AFV shows a steel angle frame with what looks like webbing securing straps to fit on the WS19. It might be a fairly simple job to mock this one up. (I doubt that anyone would be in a position to challenge its authenticity, given the rate of equipment development in WW2.)

The Centurion (O.P. Tank) with WS38AFV install is definitely post-WW2, and someone on the WS19 group was recently extremely confused by a supposedly WS19HP control lead (12-pt - 12-pt with 2-pin socket) that put the amplifier onto continuous transmit. The "control" socket was connected across 12V instead of in series with HT2+ and was obviously from the WS38AFV kit (which taps 12V from the split primary of the Canadian dynamotor supply unit).

Chris.
[1] cf: "The naming of parts." Henry Reed

[Patrick Johnson]

I'll be back in my shop on Saturday and will photograph the bolt next to an imperial tape measure so that measurements can be determined by all. Is there any chance some of these bolts or retaining rings could be found NOS from British Fasteners or the other company (insert name here) in the US? Perhaps once I provide a picture a forum member could approach these companies to see if they have any in stock?
If there are any other pictures of items on the mounting plate please let me know and I'll post this weekend. I may also post a series of "oddities" from my collection of WS19 parts in the coming weeks to see if someone can identify them.
Thanks for everyone's input, all this information makes for a great informative read!

[David Dunlop]

Here is a photograph of the plate shown in a No.2 Mk II* Cdn Carrier. Sorry for the low resolution but the most obvious differences with this plate assembly are the length (covering both PSU and Transceiver), the open front edge showing the four mounting spacers/feet along the front edge, and the carry straps either end. Pretty hefty straps, so I am thinking they might pass underneath the entire wireless assembly.

Interesting the accessories on top are still the Variometer, Aerial Base (No. 8 this time around) and the Control Box No.1.


David

[Patrick Johnson]

Here are the pictures providing all the dimensions of the retaining ring and bolt. The bolt head accepts a 5/16" socket. The third photo shows the bolts and lock washer combination used to hold the Control Unit to the mounting plate, its bolt head matches a 7/16" socket.
David requested the length of cable connecting the Variometer to the aerial, it measures a clear 4-1/4" between the metal fasteners at each end.
A question: is that likely Cadmium plating midway on the retaining bolt below the threads?

[David Dunlop]

Thanks for the photos, Patrick. That will be a big help.

Yes, the odds are quite high the hardware plating is cadmium. Very common up to the end of the war when zinc plating started to replace it. You can simulate the cadmium plating today with a good zinc plating. Hard to tell the difference when done right. Most shops just go for a quick galvanizing job which leaves an entirely different finish, that frosty dust bin crystal sort of look.

David

[Tim Bell]

My plate... possibly repainted?

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Here is a photograph of the plate shown in a No.2 Mk II* Cdn Carrier. Sorry for the low resolution but the most obvious differences with this plate assembly are the length (covering both PSU and Transceiver), the open front edge showing the four mounting spacers/feet along the front edge, and the carry straps either end. Pretty hefty straps, so I am thinking they might pass underneath the entire wireless assembly.

Interesting the accessories on top are still the Variometer, Aerial Base (No. 8 this time around) and the Control Box No.1.


David

I've seen that variety of top plate on a Scandinavian (Danish/Swedish?) post-WW2 WS19 setup at the War & Peace show recently. I didn't see any carrying straps (it seemed to be on a standard No.1 (or 21) carrier), but those handles would be necessary if you ever needed to lift it out of the "bin" on that UC install. The No.8 serial base indicates US or Canada - I don't think the USA ever produced the No.10 base, they just stuck with making Mk.II sets with the final upgrade to the complete station being the Eicor supply unit.

That may be an early "demountable" install, it's hard to tell from the photo.

The carrying straps are probably fastened to the ends of the set carrier "channels", like on the Carrier No.25 (which they look very similar to).

Chris.

[Patrick Johnson]

Hello,
By chance I came across these two photos (link attached) in the Canadian War Museum collection while searching the internet for information on WS19 Mk II sets. This mounting plate shares the same basic Variometer, aerial and CU layout as mine. Nice to see there is one more of these in Canada! Here's the link:
http://www.warmuseum.ca/collections/...&mode=artifact
Cheers, Patrick

[Chris Suslowicz]

That's interesting. it's got a 1950's vintage "Aerial Base No.28" - the larkspur VHF aerial base - fitted to the top plate. Also, the power supply case appears to have been modified to suit the long strap of the Carrier No.25. (According to the drawings, ther should be an adapter plate fitted to the 4 holes in the supply unit (the ones with blanking grommets fitted in the photograph) that has reverse keyhole slots to take the adjustable plateon the securing strap.

This one presumably had the slots re-worked to point to the right, and the original slot cutouts covered up.

Chris.

[Patrick Johnson]

Currently up for auction on ebay is another one of these rare plates, same manufacture and finish as mine. The seller is suggesting they were used in the bren carriers.
eBay item number: 132398883162

[David Dunlop]

Well after sweating bullets for a while and seeing this item go unsold, I was able to make a deal with the seller and this Plate, Mounting No 1 is now on its way here. And it only took 30 odd years to track one down.

I am beginning to suspect that when these Plates were first disposed of, the Army scavenged all related components to put back into the system. By the time the last ones were surplussed out, they were so obsolete they were disposed of with most or all fittings still attached.

The stripped plates would be a challenge for anyone to figure out if they bought a box at a disposal sale.

Now I just have two bits to find for it, an intact Aerial Base No. 10 Mk II, and that fiddly little steel packing plate that sits between this Plates, Mounting No. 1 and the wooden Variometer mounting bracket.

David

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Now I just have two bits to find for it, an intact Aerial Base No. 10 Mk II, and that fiddly little steel packing plate that sits between this Plates, Mounting No. 1 and the wooden Variometer mounting bracket.

David

No, you only have one piece to find: an Aerial Base No.10 Mk.II.

The steel plate is only used for mounting the variometer on the supply unit or similar arrangements with four small screws. For this plate you use three 1/4" BSF setscrews (hex head) and the wooden/rubber/bakelite/etc. "Piece, Packing" to fill the gap between the flat plate and the curved variometer.

Much simpler.

Chris.