A Light Recovery Trailer from Downunder

[Sam Scholz]

Hi Everyone,
After getting my DT969 road registered, I very fortunately stumbled upon a Light Recovery Trailer locally. Very timely.

I think that it is almost the perfect trailer to tow behind a 969 in Australia.
As I have almost zero documentation on it, I am on the hunt for information about it.
Also, I have ramps, but none of the other hardware that went with it, eg., chains, legs, blocks, etc.
When I work out how to get pictures up in a manageable way, I'll post them.
Then, I'll have lots of questions.

For those interested, the re-build of the 969 is here:
https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.ph...09152#p1809152

Unfortunately, the photo host that I use for that thread is becoming less user friendly, so I don't want to use it here. I have also noticed other photo hosts that seem to have a "use by date", something I want to avoid. Suggestions?

Watch this space.
Have a nice day.
Sam, in S.E.Qld.

[Sam Scholz]

Photo upload test. Thanks Hanno!



Now, how is that? It worked great!!!
No mucking around with a third party host, and they are permanent.
Bargain!!

Sam.

[Sam Scholz]

Time for more pictures. Ignore the grain bin.

The front dolly assembly. The drive shaft is for the floor auger in the grain bin.




The brake application equipment is in place!




But the trailer has been grossly overloaded, and along with incorrect offset wheels, it has bent the 4 stub axles. One so badly that someone has removed the backing plate with all its' attachments with an oxy cutter. I need that lot.




First major job is to remove the rusty grain bin, which will be done in a way to liberate lots of useful steel.


Enjoy.
Sam.

[Gordon Yeo]

Sam

I followed your 969 restoration and wondered what you would entertain us with when it was done. Question answered, welcome to MLU.

Gord

[Sam Scholz]

Hi Gord,

Thank you for the kind sentiment. I sometimes wonder about the 'lurkers' who populate the views count!

Unfortunately, this thread will be slow at the start, as the LRT is 2 projects and 2 major rallies down the list. But I probably won't be able to resist doing bits and pieces on it.
I have already found a possible source of 18" rims and have a lead for tires and some rear body jacks that may do the job.
I need pictures/manuals/info on this type of trailer in Australia, who can help?

Have a nice day.
Sam.

[rob love]

I have one of these 7-1/2 ton trailers that was Canadian built. The tires and rims are the standard 16" CMP type. I bought mine thinking it would be a neat way to take the Bren carrier to displays. Once I had it, I discovered you would need a class one tractor trailer license along with air brake endorsement (and annual safeties) to take it out of the yard.

[Sam Scholz]

Wow! That sounds difficult!
I am sometimes surprised at the wide differences in different countries regarding the on-road use of our toys.

As I possess (in Australia) a national HC (Heavy Combination = semi-trailer/truck+dog>12t{IIRC}), I am able to use the 969/LRT combo once road registered. Very fortunately, I am able to club/historic/concessional register it with the brakes as they were when new.
It won't require annual inspections (COI), but does require annual registration fees which are a fraction of the non-concessional rates.

The rims on these Oz trailers were an odd 6 stud 18" split rim. Only recently has 18" tyres become available in Australia, albeit few and far between. Some Asian buses are using them, I'm told. This lack of tyres rendered many trailers unusable, or as in my case, adaptions were made. That is why I am on the hunt for some 18" split rims. One width is to suit 7.50 tyres and one is to suit 10.50/11.00 tyres.

Sam.

[Danny Devers]

Looks like a good project.

[Sam Scholz]

Hi all,

Thanks Danny, I see you are only a few hours north of me. Drop in sometime for a look if you wish.

I've been getting a few hours in to disassemble and remove the grain bin.

First cut off much of the sheeting and remove the augers.




Then when the easier-to-access stuff was done, we hooked a chain to it and tried to roll it off. But the lip of the I-beam caught on the lip of the trailer and its' rail hit the wheels and hung there 3" off the ground!!!




After a bit of crowbar work, it was safely on the ground where it needed to be. So then I could have a much better look at my trailer. It seems to have much of the original timber floor between the decks and there seems to be lots of dark gray paint on it. More pictures later.




I still have to cut up the bin to store/scrap the steel. Then I can deal with the wheels and axles problems.

Still looking for period pictures of these trailers in Australia.

Enjoy.
Sam.

[jack neville]

Looks like a lucky find Sam.
I’m amazed that grain would be heavy enough to bend the stub axles.
They weren’t carting wet sand in it in the off season by chance?

[Sam Scholz]

Hi Jack,

A grain grower told me that bin was more like a 15 - 18 ton bin. Add the excessive offset of the rims on an axle designed for more-or-less zero offset, then take it for a drive loaded on a bouncy farm track, and I can believe the damage it has sustained.
Fortunately, I have recently purchased a large workshop press that I am sure will be up to the task!!!
Have a nice week.
Sam.

[Tony Smith]

Maybe the weight of the Grain Bin skeleton has leveraged the wheels a little bit more to the vertical ? Or perhaps now you have warped wheel discs to go with the bent axles ?

[Sam Scholz]

Hi all,

Tony, I hope not!

I spent a bit more time cleaning up the LRC. Here are some pictures.
I gave the decks a clean and sweep.




There are a pair of brackets on the timber deck which I'd bet are to locate the ramps. But what happens for the other end of the ramps?




Also, I think this bracket is one side of the cable roller assembly. Interestingly, there is a set of mounting holes adjacent (just visible), but under the timber deck that look like an alternative mounting position for the cable roller, though there are no holes in the timber. I have pictures of the roller mounted in either position. Any comments?




Now a question. This bracket has me perplexed, what is it for? There are two and look like an anchor for a rope or cable.




Anyway, this trailer seems reasonably complete and in good condition.
I'm excited!
Sam.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Sam Scholz

There are a pair of brackets on the timber deck which I'd bet are to locate the ramps. But what happens for the other end of the ramps?

Attachment 109837


Anyway, this trailer seems reasonably complete and in good condition.
I'm excited!
Sam.

It looks like the ramps were held down on the deck by a t-bolt and clamp and held forward by turnbuckles.

Yes, the trailer it revealing itself more and more.
This thread might also help: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=19722

[Sam Scholz]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for that. I have seen Darians thread, about the 969 and LRT. Similar combination to what I am aiming at. Of note are the wheels on his LRT which look like low-loader 15" spider rims with a disc welded into them. That will get the center-of-gravity down a bit, but it sure looks under-shod.
Whereas mine, with 12.00x20 wheels is well and truly over-shod. I expect the original (I think) 10.50/11.00x18 tyres to be non-existent, except for some DUKW tyres that are a tiny 8 ply.
I suspect that the front tyres were 7.50x18, but am not sure. I expect to shod this with 7.50x18 wheels all around just because it is possible to get them, I hope.

I also watched the training film on youtube linked from, um . . , can't remember, about the cranes 7 1/2ton LRT. It briefly showed the clamp you mentioned and the chains tied down over the ramps. I have even found the stump of the tie-down bolt on mine.
I had a chuckle when watching the video as three men handled the ramps. They must have been very strong men as those ramps, the Australian ones at least, are very very heavy!

I'm still cutting up the grain bin, which is liberating lots of useful steel. But it is a slow job which has to be done as it is taking up space at a friend place.

Two other parts that have been removed from my LRT are the rear handbrake mechanism and the spare wheel carrier. Yes, I can see them in the pictures, but still lots of questions.

One more question for this post. The Cranes (=British) LRT is referred to as a 7 1/2ton, whereas the Australian one as an 8ton. Clearly, they are very different in the suspension. Does anyone have any period/official documentation to confirm that the Australian LRT is, indeed, rated at 8ton payload?

Anyway, have a nice day.

Sam.

[Richard Farrant]

Sam,
The British Cranes trailer had 10.50-13 tyres on 8 stud wheels. Looking at the front hub caps on yours, they look the same as a Blitz truck, wonder if that is what the hubs came from.

regards, Richard

[Matthew P]

This is a fascinating thread. I had not seen one of these trailers before. Very interesting. I'll be following along as you restore this.

Matt

[Mike Cecil]

Sam,

The 'Trailer, 6 wheel, 8 ton, Recovery, Aust No.1' was shod with 10.50-18 wheel assemblies all round and yes, it is rated for 8 tons.

Tools and equipment supplied with the trailer were:
(1) block, stop. 4 of
(2) covers,pneumatic, spare 10.50x18, -1 of
(3) Chains, Iron crane, 5/8 inch short link, - 4 of
(4) shackles,steel 3/4 galvanised steel, large D type, SWL 1 3/4 tons - 4 of
(5)Ramps, loading, - 2 of
(6) Scotches, wheel, lorry, steel, - 2 of
(7) tubes inner pneumatic spare, 10.50x18 - 1 of
(8)wheels, spare 18 inch - 1 of
(9) wrench, wheel nut & hub - 1 of.

Items (2), (7)and (8) make up the spare wheel assembly.

MVFS number was 1782, Census no was 6169.

Weight unladen was 4.25 tons. Ground clearance unladen 9 inches.

Nice find, quite unusual.

Mike

[lynx42]

I downloaded these from Mr.Roo years ago. Thanks Cliff.



Good Luck with it.
Regards Rick.

[Sam Scholz]

Hi all,
Thank you for the replies. Gradually, the information is coming to light. Some responses and clarifications:

Richard,
the front wheels are 20"CMP that have had a disk welded into them and the original, unusual 6 stud pattern drilled. Pretty agricultural. The rear wheels are regular 10 stud Budd type commercial wheels fitted to an adapter plate that is reasonably well made.
Hugh Davis tells me that these trailers were made by Ford in Geelong, they even pressed the 18" wheels themselves. I wonder how many Australian ones were made?

Mike,
Thank you so much for that very welcome information.

1) The stop block is a very simple item, Dave M may have one that I can use as a pattern. They are about 8"x8"x16". What I don't know is the securing spring(?) to hold the latches in the locked position, the video shows it briefly and indistinctly.
3) Now I know the size of the chain, easy and cheap to get. How long were they, anyone? I'll be able to rough out a guessimate from pictures either way.
4) And the size of the shackles. I wonder if they are the same as the ones used on the Australian ground anchour ("Holdfast") which is thread-less, the pin retained with a split pin/small bolt?
5) I have a set of ramps .
6) Scotches? I have no clue, haven't see them. Any pictures, anyone?
8) Wrench for wheel nuts? No clue. Pictures anyone?

No jack???

I don't know what the significance of MVFS or census is.
Would I find a chassis number somewhere?

Rick,
I have these pictures, but thanks for marking sure. When I zoom in, they pixelate out before I see the detail I'm looking for. The two lower pictures appear to be from the same photo shoot as the pictures of this trailer coupled to a DT969 hard cab truck.


I have found a lathe big enough to swing a 20" CMP rim, if I choose to go that way. The 10.50x18 tyres are non-existent here, so I'll be going to, maybe, 9.00x20(same as DT969) or 7.50x18(original rim but lower profile) or 8.25x15(modern low-loader/float). Dunno.

And nothing significant is going to happen anytime soon, my time is taken up preparing for BTTT2020 in the DT969, with, possibly, a 3ton G.S. cargo trailer in tow. We'll see.

Have a nice day.
Sam.

[Mike Cecil]

MVFS: the Military Vehicle Field Specification. It is the Aust Army document that provides the basics about the vehicle, and a list of the equipment issued with the vehicle/trailer. There is no jack listed in the MVFS, which would seem to be a deficiency but it is assumed the jack from the towing vehicle is available for any spare tyre changes. It needs a wheel brace because the wheel nut size on the Aust 18 inch hub is quite large, so the brace from a towing vehicle like an DT 969A won't fit.

Census Code: the code number used in any inventory reports, request for parts, etc. All MVs have an assigned Census Code number. It becomes important in research when you encounter archive documents that only list vehicles by the CC, such as field returns and write off/disposal lists.

Mike

[Sam Scholz]

Thanks for that Mike,

How would I get a copy of the MVFS for the LRT?

So, do we know how many were made?
Or who used them? Were they issued forces-wide, or to only specific units or types of duty?

Sorry, I don't know much about this side of the vehicles, never done any service myself, not even close.

I know of a couple of these trailers, ie,
- there is the remains of one in a town near me, deck only. It is where I got the ramps from years ago;
- John Bellfield has one, I'm told;
- I've seen pictures of one, less wheels, along with some other MV stuff also w/o wheels, somewhere in NSW.
- I stumbled across an old remote area roadworks trailer riding on the rear suspension of a LRT in the Gulf country a decade ago. It is gone now, I'm told.
- Darian (SA) has or had one, see thread on MLU.

There is a British version in a museum somewhere, Adelaide or WA (or both?), which is visually similar, but very different underneath.

I also notice that many pictures show the LRT without the winch, fairleads and/or spare wheel bracket and other bits and pieces. So I'll be interested in information/pictures on these details. And I also notice two types of turnbuckle, probably 'as issued' and generic 'as available' at the time.
Also, I'll report on the wheel nut sizes and wheel stud PCD compared to CMP and DT969, . . . one day.

Have a nice day.
Sam.

[jack neville]

Hugh Davis may be of some assistance to you Sam.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Sam Scholz

Photo upload test. Thanks Hanno!
Now, how is that? It worked great!!!
No mucking around with a third party host, and they are permanent.
Bargain!!

Sam, my pleasure, glad you like it

Great trailer you have there, apart from a bit of overloading it survived quite well!

Hanno

[Sam Scholz]

Just a quick update.
I have now shod the LRT with all zero off-set rims.
Looks much better now.



Enjoy.
Sam.

[Sam Scholz]

Hi fellow MV tragics,

I've been playing with wheels. Managed to get some 7.50 x 18 tyres in good condition, so I have been cleaning up some rims and fitting them up. The original size tyre is 10.50 x 18 and is only available (in Australia) in an agricultural tyre which has limited road speed and a very poor wear rate on hard surfaces. So the 7.50 x 18's are going to have to do for now. The 16 ply tyres will go on the rear axles and the 14 ply will go on the front wheels.

So, after disassembling the wheels I purchased, I removed the tube/liner and cleaned them and re-assembled them. The picture below shows the fitting of the liner to the tyre following the fitting of the tube.




The next problem which I did not anticipate was the mis-alignment of the studs. These I "massaged" with a large soft-faced hammer.





Then drop the tyre onto the rim inner followed with the rim outer. . . .





. . . . and then the nuts which had been chased with a 1/2" UNF tap. I was a bit surprised as I expected BSF from a Commonwealth country!!!





Finished them with a torque wrench set to 60ft/lb. I got the setting from a generic torque chart that gives torques for each size for coarse and fine threads.





And then I could fit three rims to the LRT more-or-less permanently. I am seeking another 3 or 4 18" 6 stud rims to complete the LRT in 7.50 x 18 wheels.

That is all for now. I wish for you and yours a happy Christmas and prosperous and peaceful 2020.

Enjoy.
Sam.

[Sam Scholz]

Good morning all,

Well, what memorable times we live in.

My overall plans have changed quite a bit recently, for obvious reasons.
As BTTT2020 has become BTTT2021, I have 16 months to do what I previously had 4 months to do.

This has opened up the possibility for taking the LRT to the MJCQ Swap meet at Caboolture in October, 7 months time. Only time will tell.

So, with the pressure off, I collected the LRT and brought it home.

I fitted the last of the 7.50x18 wheels, and loaded and strapped down the ramps. Man, they are heavy. I'll weigh one sometime and report back. Suffice to say it was Dennis on the crowbar and winch assistance.




As I had not yet replaced the axles after the trip to Corowa, The Glorifier needed to be towed up the wet grassy slope out of the paddock and up to the road. But once on the road, everything went well. We stopped to check all was well on the 15km trip home.



It seemed to travel very well, but I sure noticed the weight (41/2ton-ish), having to drive it like a well loaded truck. It is beyond me how these trailers, loaded with a 4 1/2ton Carrier were towed with a 3ton Chev CMP!?!

Anyway, it is home now and I feel like I actually own it now.

I have acquired a wheel chock as seen in the youtube video linked above, thanks Dave M . More on that later.

Have a nice weekend, BUT stay at home!
(Good excuse to get some restoration/maintenance jobs done.)

Sam.

[Sam Scholz]

Hello all,

I have recently found the time and energy to make a sort-of return to the LRT.

The first job is to straighten the very bent stub axles mounted in the rear bogie rocker assembly. The bend can be seen here in the gap between the axle spacers.




The axle carrys a seal carrier, then a spacer, the backing plate and lastly a large spacer plate. These just slid off, a little too easily I fear. The remains of the brake backing plate can be seen, it has been oxy-cut off probably due to the bent axle. It is held in place with six 5/8" UNF bolts and has a spacer behind it, which can also be see.




To straighten the axles, I had long ago intended to use brute force in the form of a "porta-power" which I bought at a swap meet cheaply as it needed seals replaced. Having fixed it a year ago, I tested it and managed 27 tons pressure, so I figured that would be enough. I also have a fairly heavy "H" beam that I have used repeatedly to straighten stuff for many years and have never even come close to bending it. But I would also need to constrain the outer end of the axle while applying pressure at the inner end. To avoid damaging the axle end, I manufactured a collar designed to go on the end of the axle with a neat fit and hold it in place with the original wheel bearing nut.






And here it is in place. As it is not long enough to carry 2 wraps of the chain, I found a neat-ish longer collar to go over it to get the length needed.




So far, so good.
Enjoy.
Sam, downunder.

[Sam Scholz]

Continuing the axle straightening, here is the setup described in the previous post.




One axle was also slightly bent forwards, dunno how that happened. So I could jack it from the rocker.




One question was how to know when the axle was straight, or straight enough. An engineer I know suggested the method in the picture below, however I ran into a problem I have seen before. That is that the whole assembly is so battle-weary that there is not anywhere straight enough to take accurate measurements from!!!
So, while this method is quite accurate, I couldn't make any sense out of it due to the imperfections in the axle. I ended up using a combination of a straight edge and eye.




The first axle I attacked was the worse one. I often do it that way so that they get easier as I do each one. The last two hardly took an afternoon!
And here is the finished job. Part of the preparation was disassembling all the brakes, which is the next part of this story.




Time for a sit down and a nice cup of tea.
Have a nice day.
Sam.

[Bob Carriere]

Interesting post and amazing what some of you guys manage to find and fix up. KUDO!!!!!