Chevrolet 1542 MCP

[Paul Singleton]

The auction truck may have been fabricated by the museum for display purposes as a representation of a Canadian or British military vehicle. I read somewhere that some of the vehicles up for sale in this auction were misrepresented by the museum, and were not necessarily actual military vehicles.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

In a parallel thread on FB Dave posted a picture of the data plate on his truck.

It could well be the plate was fitted when it was rebuilt in France. Or more likely: when it was first assembled at an overseas GM facility from CKD kits.

David Hayward would have been able to explain it to us...

253CC9CA-5358-4002-8DFF-E8DB076DFA40.jpeg

[Grant Bowker]

Thank you for the photo of a data plate without the overpainting. It explains the line between engine number and gross weight that I hadn't understood - number of cylenders, bore, stroke (dimensions in mm).

[Mike Cecil]

Interesting the two build plates shown have engines beginning with TR and only 24 apart: TR4045370 and TR4045394.

If Mike K is correct that the 'R' means a RHD build, then it is indeed strange that it would be built/assembled in France, which country uses LHD.

[David Dunlop]

OK. There is a key piece missing here.

We are trying to wrap our heads around two examples of 1941/42 Chevrolet trucks assembled in France, perhaps with 1944 dated engines.

France fell in May/June 1940!

Maybe these vehicles are rebuilds, or assemblies from available surplus, wrecks, parts and wartime KD vehicles, that were being used to jump start French factories and reboot their economy. Whether or not they were LHD or RHD did not matter at all at the time, but getting the country back on its feet did.

Maybe we are looking at these two trucks now through a telephoto lens, when a wide angle one would make more sense.

David

[Mike K]

I believe the engine prefix 'TR' would be for a Canadian built engine . From memory many CMPs have the 'R' series engines . My C8 has a TR prefix engine in it , so does this Australian coupe ute
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...540#post208540

Originally Posted by Tim Hunter

Hi all, thanks for your replies, very interesting! Some further info,
Engine number: TR 3554562
Chassis number: 3200? ( taken from compliance plate not chassis rail)
Body number: F085
Colour: DLX KHAKI
Batch number/date: FO
Chassis is there, missing front right spring perch (rear), I beam Axel, hubs, wheels.
Drive train is there including rear diff with six bolt pattern hubs, tailgate is there and in good order. I have a running 216 to drop right in.
Great to know how few were manufactured, I wonder how many survivors there are?

This might help https://hotrod.gregwapling.com/chev-...dian-chev.html

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

This might help https://hotrod.gregwapling.com/chev-...dian-chev.html

Hi Mike,
This is the information and research that our friend and forum member, the late David Hayward compiled.

[Charlie Down]

Dave Ashby

Hi Dave, I've been after photos and dimensions of the bumper bracket for the 1533x2. I am currently supporting several builds and this item has come up as a bit of an issue. I believe the 1543 had the same brackets with support bars. Could you do me a massive favour and take some photos of the bumper brackets and how they fit to the chassis and bumper. Some basic dimensions would be great too.
Thank you.

[Colin Alford]

Dave,

Ref your Rear Axle tag from post 36:

It appears that the wide variety of "major assemblies" being stored in Ordnance Depots was cause for confusion by 1944.

The Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers were evidently tasked to produce identification manuals to aid personnel when attempting to determine the correct application for major assemblies (ie: Engines, rear axles, front axles, transmissions, transfer cases, and steering gear).

The two manuals that I have seen are GM Major Assemblies, and Ford Major Assemblies. They include images or drawings which point out the major identification features, the locations of any cast or stamped markings which will aid in identification (ie: gear ratio), and also have data sheets which list all of the components to assist technicians if they needed to convert the major assembly that they had on hand to fit a different vehicle than it was originally intended for.

It appears that at about the same time, the manufacturers were instructed to affix metal tags (such as your example) with the part number of the major assembly. I presume this was seen as a more durable form of marking than any other methods that had been previously employed.

I believe that a few examples of this type of tag have been discussed previously on this forum. An example that comes to mind was an image of a Windsor Carrier engine bearing one of these metal tags that was found in a CMP.

Perhaps someone with easy access to a CMA-02 or FMA-01 can post an image where these tags are explained.

Colin

[Colin Alford]

Dave,

Here are some images from CMA-01.

1809572 is certainly the correct rear axle for a 1542X3, and it is also correct for 1531X8 and 1541X8.

Regards,
Colin

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

In a parallel thread Dave posted a picture of the data plate on his truck.

It could well be the plate was fitted when it was rebuilt in France. Or more likely: when it was first assembled at an overseas GM facility from CKD kits.

David Hayward would have been able to explain it to us...

Actually, David Hayward left us a clue:

Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP)

In January 1939, G.M. (France) started C.K.D. production of cars at Gennevilliers with a maximum daily capacity of four cars, either Buick, Chevrolet or Pontiac, six C.K.D. Chevrolet trucks with cabs, 6 M.K.D. [‘Mostly Knocked Down’] or semi-assembly cars from either G.M. Continental, Antwerp, or Adam Opel A.G., and six S.U.P. [‘Single Unit Packs, or fully-assembled] units.
[Read more here...]

I searched for a bit more information and found that “A new plant went into operation at Gennevilliers, France, on the outskirts of Paris, for assembly of completely knocked down (CKD) cars and trucks.” All vehicles assembled there from imported parts were fitted with a General Motors (France) body tag / data plate *) like the one shown above as they are regarded as new vehicles built in France.

I reckon GM Overseas Operations regained control over their Gennevilliers plant right after the war, possibly with the aid of the US Army (late 1945, the US Army 1568th Engineer Depot Company was based at Gennevilliers, Paris). GM then started assembly of CKD kits of these Chevrolet (and other) trucks and cars to fulfill the urgent need for vehicles on mainland Europe. The parts for these kits may well have been manufactured in 1944-1945 under US, United Kingdom or Canadian Government contracts, awaiting shipment for assembly overseas.

*) the one attached below is identical and is fitted to a 1958 Buick
15078403419_9af3a54b79_o.jpg

[Dave Ashby]

Great detective work Hanno, as always the information is out there it’s just knowing where to look
Many thanks to everyone for their input on this thread.

Dave

[Dave Ashby]

Whilst taking some measurements of the rear diff on the 1542 for another thread I came across this plate attached to one of the differential bolts.
It reads:

Rear Axle Assy.
Service No 1809572
General Motors Of Canada

Does anyone know what this refers to? It wouldn’t be a part no due to being on a removable or equally very losable plate.

Dave

5CA69536-5BBB-42FD-8A38-E341372364EF.jpg

[Dave Ashby]

I also found the body plate in the centre of the first cross member right behind the cab so excuse the angle of the photo.
It reads:

Wilson Motor Bodies
Code & Serial No
ULS-2- 255C

A link to info on Wilson Motor Bodies: http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/w/wils...tor_bodies.htm

Dave

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[Hanno Spoelstra]

Dave, those tags are interesting finds!

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/w/wils...tor_bodies.htm

Wilson Motor Bodies eventually relocated to larger quarters located at 1153 Queen Street West (at Abell), and when Canada started preparing for Great Britain’s entry into the Second World War, they received numerous government contracts, of which several included the manufacture of truck cabs and service bodies for CMP military vehicles supplied to Britain within the Lend-Lease program.

(*CMP refers to Canadian Military Pattern vehicles, a class of Canadian-built military trucks built to British Army specifications for use by members of the British Commonwealth, of which Canada was the largest member.)

C.M.P. chassis manufacturers included Chevrolet, Ford and F.W.D. and the following Canadian firm’s supplied the coachwork:

W.D. Beath and Son Ltd, Toronto; Brantford Coach and Body Co. Ltd, Brantford; Canadian Top & Body Co., Tillbury; Dominion Truck Body Ltd., Kitchener; Gotfredson Truck Co. Ltd, Walkerville; Motor Coach Industries, Winnipeg; Preston Metal Products Ltd, Preston; Truck Engineering Ltd., Woodstock; and Wilson Motor Bodies Ltd., Toronto.

Specifically Wilson constructed cabs for 3-ton FWD SU-COE (cab-over-engine) all-wheel-drive chassis which were manufactured by F.W.D. at their Clintonville, Wisconsin plant then transported to Wilson’s plant in Toronto. The F.W.D. SU-COE was supplied as a GS/MAT truck and a tractor for semi-trailers and its bodywork was similar in appearance to that found on British-built AEC Matador artillery prime movers.

War contracts soon exceeded the capacity of their Queen Street plant and a spacious new facility was constructed in Long Branch, Ontario just west of downtown Toronto at 1466 Lake Shore Rd. (now 3560 Lakeshore Blvd., W.).

A 1944 disagreement with Local 252, United Automobile Workers of America, mentions the firm employed 200 at the time.