Info needed: cmp 13 gun tractor

[Richard Salter]

Hi help needed I have brought a CMP what I believe to be a Artillery gun tractor please see photos any info would be good I think it was a beetle back originally but the back has been chopped off and a GMC back put on it has the winch and the engine not sure if it runs, I would like to restore it back to a gun tractor. The only ID is the chassis no which looks like J844N2685
Any info or plans for Fabricating the back please
Thanks

[rob love]

It sure does appear to be an artillery tractor. The shells were usually pulled by the farmers or garages who bought them and the winch used for a tow truck boom. As such, you could occasionally find the shells hiding in the bush lines of the rural properties, but these days they are a very rare find. They are pretty much all fabricated, but it may be a little difficult to do one via emails.



I am just in the infancy of my artillery tractor project. The shell was found by a guy 2 provinces away located just 40kms from me. It had 3" thick trees growing through it, and some of the original padlocks were still hanging from the bins. It sports a few bullet holes and some of the top metal was salvaged by the farmer for another project but overall it is the pot of goldat the end of the rainbow.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hi Richard,

Good to see this one resurfacing. Last time I saw this, it was for sale in the Netherlands.



This was once a field artillery tractor (FAT) indeed. Most survivors have the rear body missing. Chances are slim to find a rebuildable body, as most were scrapped after they were removed to make room for a more useful load body or a crane. They can be reconstructed, as far as I know there are no plans available. One restorer in Belgium used a 1:35 scale model for dimensions, others have used a restored FAT to reconstruct the body. Roger Wilson in New Zealand builds sheet metal kits for these.

Another option is to build an Indian Pattern FAT with a wooden body. Much easier to do and much rarer!

"Dutch Forces in the Netherlands East Indies got many vehicles and equipment handed over from British-Indian army units in 1946. The picture of the four trucks is of the 6th Indian Field Artillery before they (and the 145th FAR (Berkshire Yeomanry)) handed over their guns and trucks to the Dutch."

[m606paz]

Great project!
Pics here in forum maybe help you
Walde Libera made the rear end
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2670
Others posts
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14429
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=15927
If you need measurements we have a FGT to take
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...d.php?p=281450

[Grant Bowker]

I'm not saying that your reading of the number is wrong, but typically the serial number assigned at the GM factory in Canada was purely numeric. As a result, I would have expected a C-GT model to have a number of the format y8440nnnnn with y being the last digit of the nominal year of manufacture and the ns being the sequential serial number (8440 representing the artillery tractor model). Based on that I would guess your serial is 3844026851. My experience is that it is unusual to find Canadian Chevrolet with the serial stamped on the chassis but this might have been done after the fact to satisfy a licensing authoutity (though the numbers are much better spaced and aligned than most after the fact efforts). Is there any chance that the data plates remain on the dash to confirm or deny? If the plates are missing, a difference in how the paint in their locations has aged might hold a clue.


Followup: I found a photo I took of the data plate of the remains of a CGT, attached. The other plates list it as a model C-60441-M-FAT-4 with parts list CGT-01 and maintenance manual MB-C1 applying. The photo confirms the pattern described above (possible exception - the model year).

[Richard Salter]

yes you could be right I'm only guessing on number by the look of what your saying mine would be 1944 built? I've looked at some of the links sent me in other post and can see defiant similarities in the body construction for example in the cab be hind the seats in the corner of the roof are tubular strength bars suggesting it was a all one piece roof with canvas cover.

There are no data plates on the engine cover but there is an old printed label with service instructions on it but very faint.

[Grant Bowker]

My guess would be 1943, but I'm far from certain on that.

[Richard Salter]

Ok well the first thing I will do is take off the old GMC tub on the back and either sell or scrap it then perhaps look for more evidence on markings pic of winch and a better view of chassis no

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Richard Salter

J844N2685

I see a 3 as opposed to a J. And I'm pretty sure that N will be a number or numbers.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Richard,

Congratulations! Lovely project.

Be sure to check out that rear cab wall.....as by the looks of if.....I am pretty sure that used to be the sloping roof on the original beetle back.

Alex

[Richard Salter]

Hi Alex
Thanks for that info that's great obviously I can reuse, so how do you know as im a novice with cmp and am putting all the information I get together before I start.
Thanks

[Alex van de Wetering]

Richard,

I recognized the square holes with all the nuts around it, that the previous owner cleverly used as windows for the cab rear wall.....they are the original frames for the access covers (vents??) in the sloping back.
The best I can come up with at the moment is this factory picture that shows the two covers.
source: factoryphotos DVD from Servicepub

I presume the square tubing is also part of the original super structure.

[Richard Salter]

Hi Alex
after reading your post I also went on a quest to find out if you are right and yes you are I not only found photo evidence like your picture but I also looked at my CMP Fat again and yes I believe who ever converted the truck used the roof to fill in the back and the vents still work when researching I also notice that although the Beatle back looked the same their were supple difference's some had the rear seats facing the front so crew sat over the rear wheels and I think the later version had a bench seat for the crew which was located behind the front seats facing towards the rear. also the back of the body doors are two big ones and on others its 3 little ones different sizes. I would like to know the reason for this and is this a modification difference between dates

[Maurice Donckers]

the chassis number on yours is a modern Dutch registration number .

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Richard Salter

when researching I also notice that although the Beatle back looked the same their were supple difference's some had the rear seats facing the front so crew sat over the rear wheels and I think the later version had a bench seat for the crew which was located behind the front seats facing towards the rear. also the back of the body doors are two big ones and on others its 3 little ones different sizes. I would like to know the reason for this and is this a modification difference between dates

See this thread for some info: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...252#post216252

All versions of the gun tractor body had four forward facing seats. Two more seats in the cab.

[Andy Mitchell]

Hi Richard,
I have sent you Roger Wilsons contact details in New Zealand on Facebook.
Cheers,

Andy

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Roger Wilson in New Zealand builds sheet metal kits for these.

Originally Posted by Andy Mitchell

I have sent you Roger Wilsons contact details in New Zealand on Facebook.

Roger is a member of this forum, too: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/member.php?u=13867

[Richard Salter]

I posted earlier photos of my cmp 13 in which I was asking info about. Well I thought I would put a few pictures up to show progress of stripping it down, so far wiring harness removed and tagged doors off cab mounts off and the rear panel was only clamped in by the original canvas clamps from the body. The rear panel turns out its the roof from the back. All so if you look the original under coat and the original green paint
I would like it if any one can supply me plans to fabricate the rear body please.

[rob love]

The layout of your back frame doesn't look right...almost like a crossmember is missing between the front winch crossmember and the transfer case crossmember.

Here is the layout on my original frame, which has since had the side-rails replaced with a 15cwt frame.

[Richard Salter]

Hi Rob yes it is there but I notice to triangle plates which are missing. but cross member is there also the winch guard is missing. I notice from your post you found a body is there any chance you could send photo and measurements I have blue prints of the B1/2 body which I believe it would of had.

[rob love]

Mine is a 1944 truck, and there are signs of other area of the chassis that have been strengthened over the earlier years. For instance, the bracket on the front crossmember that supports the cowl is doubled. When I look at earlier trucks, that bracket is often cracked. There is a re-enforcement bar for the rear roller assembly that I do not see on the earlier examples at work.

I can get you some measurements as you go along with your restoration, but winter will soon be here which will make measuring difficult. It seems to me someone on the forum went through this in the past, and someone in Europe had made up drawings for the rear body.

Rob

[Richard Salter]

Hi Rob
yes I do have a lot to do before i get to the rear body im taking cab off which is not to bad so will just replace the outer skin by the door post and then take engine ,gear box out and recondition it iv already sourced another 216 engine complete which is a good find, as for the rear body I have asked a couple of users but not had a reply yet

Thanks
Richard