Carriers and 2" mortars

[Robert Bergeron]

Here is a nice little albeit incorrect mortar mounted in said bracket . I did not have a MK7 mortar on hand so i used a Spanish 50 mm .

[Robert Bergeron]

If i were member of the crew in a Carrier i would much prefer a mortar over the 4* inch smoke discharger. A choice of smoke , parachute flares and HE . Plus you can aim and range it . You can jump out of the Carrier and bring it with you . I don’t know if it worked but in theory it’s was a good idea .

[Robert Bergeron]

Here is the mortar that fits the bracket.

[stephen crowhurst]

Taken from the Armourers Manual this shows the Mk's of Mortars suitable for Carriers.

[Robert Bergeron]

Thank you Stephen . Most recent find . It was a strike of luck .An original , good condition Mk7 mortar !

[stephen crowhurst]

Looks good, any date on it?

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks Stephen . Don’t know , will look closely for one and report back .

[rob love]

There is also a modification to install the 2 inch mortar on the engine cover, using a fabricated mount and the small baseplate. It was detailed in one of the old CAMT booklets if I recall correctly, and required removal of the firing rest located on the engine cover.

Very nice find Robert. Is it Canadian? I have been hoping to find one of those baseplates for a long time.

With the recent OIC firearms bans, it would appear the 2" mortar was untouched, although anything 60mm and bigger was. According to the description on the FRT, the mortar does not meet the definition of a firearm in Canada, I believe due to the low muzzle velocity. I would also expect this will be subject to review.

[Robert Bergeron]

Thank you for the info Rob. To answer your question Stephen my MK7 is dated 1944 . Rob i do not see the Inglis mark .Were there other Canadian makers ?

[Robert Bergeron]

Here is the maker . H & M of Canada Limited ?

[Robert Bergeron]

Here are some more markings . Can anyone help identifying the Maker mark and other marks ? Thanks .

[Robert Bergeron]

Here is another view of my setup on my MkII * Carrier .

[Robert Bergeron]

A nice inspector mark located on the baseplate . Inglis Canada is my idea . So the mortar barrel would have been outsourced to H & M and the baseplate made by Inglis . The overall unit is full of these IC proof marks . Anyone with better ideas ?

[David Dunlop]

Some interesting markings on that Mortar, Robert.

If I recall correctly, there were two major manufacturers of the 2-inch Mortar in Canada during World War Two. The better known is John Inglis, but the Canadian Elevator Equipment Company Ltd in Toronto was also involved. What I am not sure of, however, is when each of these companies was active in production. Who came first? Were they concurrent? Was one added to the mix to assist in the pre D-Day buildup?

The fancy “P” stamp is from Philco. Usually associated with wireless related equipment, they had an extensive metal shop and show up from time to time with metal sub-assemblies in unexpected equipment.

As for the HMofC, that could be one of five other subcontractors found in Vancouver, Hamilton, Toronto, Woodstock or Sherbrooke, Quebec during the war.

Nice find.


David

[Robert Bergeron]

Thank you very much David , very informative . I have found that the War Museum has a similar mortar made by the same maker . Have a look ! So Canadian origin is possible . More to follow ! Amended following Ed’s comments .

[stephen crowhurst]

Hello Robert, thank you for the information. Cheers Stephen.

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Thank you very much David , very informative . I have found nice references on the War Museum website . Have a look ! So Canadian origin is comfirmed ! A nice find indeed for the Carrier knowledge . More to follow !

What you have found is a generic statement as opposed to an actual reference. Now if the CWM website had stated what the manufacture's initials stood for and posted a some form of primary source confirmation, then you would have found a reference.

[Robert Bergeron]

Thank you for your useful remarks Ed . You probably noticed the mortar in the CWM ´s collection is a MK8 . The one on my Carrier is a Mk7. So at least we have a hint the manufacturer H.M. of C.L. manufactured mortar barrels for both the MK7 & the Mk8 variations of mortar . It is a little more information than i had before . Now to find where this particular manufacturer was located .

[Robert Bergeron]

Here is a description of the No 7 mortar taken from a British publication. Note the very different carrying handle from my example . The British had a very simplified version compared to the Canadian version . The Canadian version seen in wartime factory pictures have the Bren Inglis made carrying handle .

[Robert Bergeron]

So Viola Davis made MK7 mortars for the MKII carrier at the elevator campany according to Michael R .

[Robert Bergeron]

Mystery markings ..

[Robert Bergeron]

Here are a few pictures of the mortar . There is even one of a crewman firing one from the deck of a MkI Carrier for Rob Love ´s viewing pleasure !

[Robert Bergeron]

Two more .

[Richard Salter]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

Well, I now know that 12 projectiles were carried

Very very interesting video here

https://youtu.be/01mNiOJhaX8

Canadian Mk1 carrier by the looks of it too.

Love the the video and remember if in doubt dismount 😂

[Ed Storey]

This little snippet of information and photograph from the UC-F1 Manual may be of interest.

[Robert Bergeron]

Thank you Richard and Ed. Interesting mount made of wooden blocks bolted to the engine cover !

[Ed Storey]

Attached are a couple of wartime 2-Inch Mortar images taken in either Bermuda or Jamaica.

[Robert Bergeron]

I like this one . MKI Carrier . Nice Boys rifle protuding from the front . Nice Bren firing at an incoming airplane with 2 inch mortar firing high elevation in support …….It begs the question : Is the mortarman holding the base of the mortar with one hand ?