Modified Conventional Pattern Trucks

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bill Kreiner

I guess my real question is, were there GMC and Ford MCPs? Here in the states, there was the Ford G8T, which was in production straight through the war, but looked like a 1942 Ford civilian truck.

Hello Bill,

The short answer is yes, Ford did make MCP trucks, and they differed a great deal more from conventional trucks than their American enlisted cousins - see the quote from an earlier thread below. Chevrolet built a similar model, the CC60L.

More later,
Hanno

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

And here is a picture from Vanderveen showing the Canadian-built 1942 model Ford FC60L (or C298TFS), a 3 -ton 4x2 GS truck with 158in wheelbase and 95-hp V8 engine and a two-speed rear axle.
It had typical MCP features like right-hand drive, 10.50-16 tyres on British split rims and a Canadian-built cargo body.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

There were military Canadian GMC trucks and the 1940/1 Model US GMCs were initially modified civilian pattern trucks.

[Bill Kreiner]

Thanks, everyone, for your helpful responses.

Hanno, which book is that photo from? Is it from Historic Military Vehicles Directory, or one of the versions of Fighting Vehicles Directory? I have them all. Sadly, I don't have any issues of Wheels & Tracks (but I do have the four articles dealing with British "Tillies" -- Austin, Hillman, Standard, Morris). I didn't realize the Canadian Ford MCPs differ significantly from the American civilian-type military Fords. Offhand I can recall that the American-built G8T of late-1942-thru-early-1945 has headlight guards and no nameplate. Other than that I don't know.

David, do you have the GMC MCPs listed on your site somewhere?

[Ganmain Tony]

A bit rougher than when it was built Bill, but here is a Chev MCP we are currently working on.

Under the thread "its infectious" there is more information on this truck

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Bill, I am sending you those copiues that you wanted.

I have a list of ALL Chev/ML/GMC trucks on sale from 1939-45 from a parts list but you can't tell which ones were actually produced. I also have scanned photos of variopus military GM of Canada trucks, and they include from memory a GMC RCAF fire tender. I shal have to look it up sometime.

There were I should add three? versions of the Chevy CC60L MCP which differed slightly...it gets very complicated!

[Bill Kreiner]

Tony -- Thanks for the pictures and the link to the other thread. That's a great find! I wish you luck with the restoration. I take it from reading the other thread that it's Holden-built and from 1941.

David -- Thanks for sending the sheets. Hope the spreadsheet I made of the Ford of Canada data makes it much easier to read. That handwritten page is indeed a nightmare!

As for the Chevrolets and GMCs listed in the parts book, do you mean not all of the models listed were built? I certainly agree that researching the MCPs is daunting and confusing.

[gordon]

Well the US produced lots of military Dodges, plus some militarised civilian, and loads of civilian trucks were bought by the army.

Canada produced military-specific types such as the T212 D8A, and militarised versions of standard trucks like the T222 D15 and T110L which were civilian in origin but had military bodies and fenders.

In addition Canada produced loads of standard ( ish ) T116 one ton pickups and panels which were supplied to Commonwealth Forces, these were almost just civilian trucks painted green, but had additions like tow hooks and blackout light covers.

Got one file image of a Dodge prototype 13 cab CMP, which I suppose would be a D15 but cabover CMP rather than the conventional cab.

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Bill Kreiner

Tony -- I take it from reading the other thread that it's Holden-built and from 1941.

Holden Assembled the imported chassis/cowl but built the cabs themselves in a similar manner to CMP imports at the time. In the early war years a number of GM car chassis were built as ute's (pickup trucks) by Holden as well including Pontiac's and you think researching the American and Canadian MCP's is hard. There is even MCP versions here that were modified to see if making them could save steel and make assembling them easier plus GMC CCKW352 airborne trucks modified and rebuilt by GMHolden for both the US and Australian forces during the war as well.

53524r 1941 PontiacRoadster ute.jpg 148501p 1941 Pontiac with utility body.jpg 28727_1.jpg Aust%20Chev%20ME.jpg ROSS, TASMANIA. 1943-04-14.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bill Kreiner

Hanno, which book is that photo from? Is it from Historic Military Vehicles Directory, or one of the versions of Fighting Vehicles Directory? I have them all. Sadly, I don't have any issues of Wheels & Tracks (but I do have the four articles dealing with British "Tillies" -- Austin, Hillman, Standard, Morris). I didn't realize the Canadian Ford MCPs differ significantly from the American civilian-type military Fords. Offhand I can recall that the American-built G8T of late-1942-thru-early-1945 has headlight guards and no nameplate. Other than that I don't know.

Bill,

That picture comes from Vanderveen's FVD WW II. As far as I can recall, Wheels & Tracks only has minimal information about MCP vehicles - click here to see a fairly complete listing of relevant W&T articles.

Please bear in mind there is a difference between conventional and modified conventional pattern trucks, both of which were used by the military. I will piece some more info on this together later and post it here. I doubt if the differences between conventional, modified conventional, military pattern and one-offs show up in the sales charts, but it would be interesting to get some more detail.

Hanno

[Local Chap]

Some MCP (Ford, Chev and Dodge) pics from the Aust War Memorial site:

[Local Chap]

In THIS THREAD, Hanno Spoelstra showed these pics which show the difference between the Commercial Ford in Military trim (2G8T), and the Modified Commercial Pattern Ford (FC60L).

[Keith Webb]

Your second pic is a MCP cab on a C15A chassis, an interesting conversion indeed.

Originally Posted by Local Chap

Some MCP (Ford, Chev and Dodge) pics from the Aust War Memorial site:

[Mike K]

There are contemporary photographs of 1940 4X4 Maple leaf MCP trucks , apparently assembled by GMH . There is one in the Vanderveen bible , 72 edition. A GM version of the M-H No.3A more or less . As far as I know, no survivors have been found . I have also seen pics of them in that GMH history book they published just after the war... so they definately did exist , but technical specs. are vague at this stage .

Mike