M113 track

[Douglas Greville]

Rob

Very interesting and thanks for the clarification.

I do wonder if the ice spikes and the grousers that go in place of the track pads are 2 differing uses?
WW2 smooth rubber block track ie. seen on Stuart/Grant/Lee/Sherman had grousers that were typically placed every 4 links. You probably know the ones I mean. I have never seen them described for ice use.

I doubt the Diehl grousers would be much use on say ice sheets, but would be typically used on snow or for improved traction in say muddy conditions?

I do note that even with grousers fitted, the Diehl track can still have the spikes fitted at the same time.

Don't know, just theorising?

As to the issue of end connectors coming off, it appears to have been solely
a Diehl related problem. Over here, it was traced back to failure to follow the installation instructions.
It is absolutely essential that the preservative is thoroughly cleaned off the pins and bores of the end connectors before joining. This requires solvent, brushes and rags. Something that may not be available in the field.
Likewise the correct torque on the end connector bolts.

Diehl were very specific about that: but if the information doesn't get to the
person doing the track bashing or that person decides not to follow the
instructions or does not have the brush/solvent/rags then tragedy can
happen.

Diehl light track (ie M113 family various versions) has seen track life of between 11,000 and 14,000 km reliably, which is pretty impressive compared to T130!

The heavier track with a centre connector is more forgiving of bad assembly as the loss of an outer connector doesn't mean immediate shedding of the track - or am I wrong?

Regards
Doug

Originally Posted by rob love

Investigated a bit further regarding the tracks on the Canadian M113s.

The Diehl 213B track was the one with the flat spot on the pins. Originally installed in the latter half of the 70s, they were prone to shedding their end connectors, and the fleet was subject to severe speed limitations and no use of public roads while it was being investigated. Being of the "live track" variety, there was potential for the broken track to climb onto the vehicle and hurt the crew commander.

The M113 fleet (including the Lynx) changed over to the Diehl 213G track in the early 80s. The pins look round, but are described as hexagonal in the manuals. I'll have to have a closer look at some of our spare track sections to see if this is the case. The end connectors are also slightly re-enforced over the pins.

Re the 513, Canada was going to it, and it was fielded for the M113A3 fleet. However, at some point the decision was made to go entirely to the Soucey rubber band track, and the 513 is now gone from the Canadian system. We hold one section of this track out in the shed I believe.

Re ice grousers, they are a very real consideration here in Canada. I have not seen any documented evidence that we used the pin type Douglas describes, but rather we used the type that were installed in place of the track pad. I think they went on every 4th section of track, but I would have to confirm that in case anyone really needs to know.

I also noted that there are ice grousers for the Soucey track. They appear to be more akin to the radial tire cables used on cars and light trucks.

[rob love]

You are right Douglas. According to the manual the grousers were meant for when the ground would not provide adequate traction (I think they used the term boggy) and were not for use on hard surface. If they did have to be driven for short distance on hard surface, speed was limited to 10mph.

Our carriers had racks on the sides to hold these things. I can't say I ever saw them installed outside of a track course. It was usually too cold to be doing a lot of optional maintenance during the winter months.

[Douglas Greville]

Rob

Fancy some 40°C heat instead? ;-(

So, does anyone have a photo of a Diehl ice spike or even have one in
their possession, or are they a theoretical item that never actually existed
outside of Diehl prototypes?

As to the Diehl grousers, I have seen plenty of photos of them, especially on
the front of Leopards, but don't ever recall seeing a photo of any in actual use.

Regards
Doug

Originally Posted by rob love

You are right Douglas. According to the manual the grousers were meant for when the ground would not provide adequate traction (I think they used the term boggy) and were not for use on hard surface. If they did have to be driven for short distance on hard surface, speed was limited to 10mph.

Our carriers had racks on the sides to hold these things. I can't say I ever saw them installed outside of a track course. It was usually too cold to be doing a lot of optional maintenance during the winter months.

[rob love]

The ice spike is not mentioned in any of the literature I have seen for the diehl track in Canadian use.

I saw a decent presentation on the Diehl track on the net the other day. It shows some of their track used on Warsaw block equipment as well.
http://www.atlantic-bg.org/files/con...nd_Systems.pdf

[Douglas Greville]

Rob

Thanks, I am downloading it now. Surprising how little info there is about
Diehl track. Their website is pretty useless. May go some way to explaining
why they got into financial difficulty.

Regards
Doug

Originally Posted by rob love

The ice spike is not mentioned in any of the literature I have seen for the diehl track in Canadian use.

I saw a decent presentation on the Diehl track on the net the other day. It shows some of their track used on Warsaw block equipment as well.
http://www.atlantic-bg.org/files/con...nd_Systems.pdf

[45jim]

We used these regularly. Especially when we deployed to Chilcotin (BC) for winter ex, where without them the tracks just would just spin. They worked well in snow and icy conditions but with the limited weight of the vehicle and their fairly large surface area they would not punch through really thick ice and you'd be skating rather than sliding, but we're comfortable on skates in Canada!

They were used sporadically in Wainwright and Suffield it just depended on conditions that particular winter. The open plains of Alberta never got enough snow to make them absolutely necessary but we used them every time in BC. I can remember the SSM going up one side and down the other of a driver that forgot that "one" grouser when we drove on the highway to the railhead. Little "X's" all along the highway, a trail to follow.

[Douglas Greville]

Hello all,

I fluked upon a not so good pair of photos of the fabled Diehl 213 Ice Spike!

All being well, it should be attached to this post.

Does this ring any bells for anyone who used this track?

Regards
Doug