C8A HUM census numbers?

[David Dunlop]

Hi Hanno.

Any idea where in Amsterdam that was taken?

To my tired eyes, that looks like a number of German military personnel standing on the property to the right, and quite a lot of them seem to be smiling.

David

[Alex van de Wetering]

Note it is use by the Canadian Army, but the census number is British.

Hanno, why do you say the Census number is British? There are several late war pictures of Canadian vehicles with census numbers starting with "59"....some with the "C" prefix, but a lot of them without.
The 59 range according to the Chilwell list is "Various allotted to middle east", but I think these were given to Canadian vehicles when they ran out of room in the 42....range.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Hanno, why do you say the Census number is British? There are several late war pictures of Canadian vehicles with census numbers starting with "59"....some with the "C" prefix, but a lot of them without.
The 59 range according to the Chilwell list is "Various allotted to middle east", but I think these were given to Canadian vehicles when they ran out of room in the 42....range.

Because the census number does not come from a range of numbers allocated to the Canadian Army Overseas - see post #12 above. So that means it was part of a block of census numbers assigned to British contracts. Now, we know that many vehicles acquired by the British government were allotted to Canadian and other allied armies. In that case vehicles from British contracts often got a “C” added, but many did not as this HUP shows.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Because the census number does not come from a range of numbers allocated to the Canadian Army Overseas - see post #12 above.

That list dates from July 1943, so I am not sure if that allows us to draw conclusions on vehicles seen in 1944/45. I mean, I question that a Canadian vehicle census starting with 59 (or basically any 7 figure number not starting with 42) is automatically an (ex) British contract vehicle.

For instance, a number of C60L APT's have come up for sale over the past few years, some which seemingly still have their original paint and census....they start with "59" and are from contract SM 6520. So, is this a Canadian or British contract?
I have no proof, but I don't think Canadian contract census numbers ended at 4299999, but more likely more census numbers were needed and numbers previously not taken up were used.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hi Alex,

It is not so much the high census number range. But if the census number was not preceded by a “C” it was not a vehicle produced under a Canadian contract.

And:
• SM = Supply Mechanical, these were British contracts.
• CD and/or LV = Contract Demand (Land Vehicles (?)), these were Canadian contracts.
Read more here: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1965

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

That list dates from July 1943, so I am not sure if that allows us to draw conclusions on vehicles seen in 1944/45. I mean, I question that a Canadian vehicle census starting with 59 (or basically any 7 figure number not starting with 42) is automatically an (ex) British contract vehicle.

For instance, a number of C60L APT's have come up for sale over the past few years, some which seemingly still have their original paint and census....they start with "59" and are from contract SM 6520. So, is this a Canadian or British contract?
I have no proof, but I don't think Canadian contract census numbers ended at 4299999, but more likely more census numbers were needed and numbers previously not taken up were used.

[Alex van de Wetering]

But if the census number was not preceded by a “C” it was not a vehicle produced under a Canadian contract.

I don't think I agree; that might have been the "rule", but period pictures show that the reality was often different. There are plenty of pictures of Canadian vehicles without the "C" prefix, both in the 42..-43 range, as well as higher numbers starting with 55, 56 or 59. The 42..-43 range as we all know was for Canadian contracts, but even with the picture of the CBC HUP above, you can see that the "C" was often omitted, and therefor in my opinion, you can't say a vehicle is British contract by just the lack of a "C" prefix.
Especially in late war pictures you see a lot of Softskins without the C-prefix, but with Armour the lack of a "C" seems more common, like T16 carriers, Shermans, Staghounds.

And:
• SM = Supply Mechanical, these were British contracts.
• CD and/or LV = Contract Demand (Land Vehicles (?)), these were Canadian contracts.
Read more here: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1965

Thanks Hanno!

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Hi Hanno.

Any idea where in Amsterdam that was taken?

To my tired eyes, that looks like a number of German military personnel standing on the property to the right, and quite a lot of them seem to be smiling.

David

David,

Hanno's link gives the location as "Van Baerlestraat" at the location of the old Iceskating club. I just found out that the building was taken down in 1947 and the ice rink is what we now call the "Museumplein"...the scene of an anti Covid lockdown demonstration, today!

[david moore]

That is a Canadian vehicle - see the maple leaf sign at the rear.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by david moore

That is a Canadian vehicle - see the maple leaf sign at the rear.

I'm thinking HQ (the 9) 1st Canadian Army.

[Ed Storey]

The vehicle may even have come up with the Corps from Italy.