Chev 216 loose piston pin - which one ?

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi Mike

As you mentioned "I have seen the pump kit for the 235 conversion, I think the 235 engine is slightly longer than a 216 and the fan can be too close to the radiator in some vehicles " yes this is why I had to remove and press on a different pulley.

My experience doing the conversion on the 261 and 235 was that the block is not longer it is the extra 1/4" of the adapter plate plus the positioning of the and shape of pulley on the later 216 water pumps. The new or rebuilt water pumps that I was using all had the the narrow style pulley that I removed and replaced with the old style pulley flange and pulley.

As to the domed piston, ran into this when I rebuilt the engine on my HUP a few years ago, needed a new head because mine had some cracks developing, they had not leaked yet. The only NOS head I could get was for the flat topped pistons which meant I had to change pistons, not a problem as the cylinders were being bored which the pistons had to be changed. Pictures of the piston and head http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/H...May%20Work.htm

Be careful of how you remove or drive on the crank pulley real easy to deform the hand crank boss. Made a tool that fit in the center hole and put the driving force across through the hand crank slots this way when pulley is driven on it doesn't damage the boss.

Attachment 73975

Cheers Phil

Ok Interesting

What type of carby do you run on your 216's ?

I have a Rochester model B on the C8 . It has been very good and trouble free but I just noticed it has been running rich , the plugs are black with carbon . I use the original oil bath air cleaner .

A lot of people here with old Chevys, use Holden Stromberg carbies with an adjustable main jet .

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Mike

All three of my 216 engines still have their original carbs all are Carter W-1 but they are not identical there were changes during the years of production. Carb at left is out of the 41 Pattern 12 one at right is the 1945 HUP carb.



Yes, I have noted that all of the engines seem to run richer, than when I first started driving them years ago. Do not know if this is the carbs or if it is that the gasoline has change a lot in the US.

The HUP with 216 has original oil bath, C60L with 235 has a 235 oil bath (throat is bigger) the C60S with the 261 has a modern paper filter could not find an oil bath that would fit the carb or the space.

The Carter W-1 on the HUP has been trouble free in 37 years of driving except for one time when I got a half a tank of water at a gas station. Ended up fixing the truck on the side of the road, drain the filter, remove the fuel bowel on the fuel pump, took the top of the carb and empty the water out . Fortunately I had only filled one tank at that station so was able to switch over to the other tank, then with the fuel line disconnected from the carb pumped the hand primer on the fuel pump until the lines were clear and gas going into the collection can was clear.

Because of the ethanol in the US gas I have discontinued using the mechanical fuel pumps on two of the trucks and replaced them with 6 volt electrics. On the HUP the original fuel pump is still in place and the fuel goes through it but it has a metal plate where the pump diaphragm would be used galvanized steel so it should not rust.


The two bigger trucks with the 261 and 235 engine have the correct carbs for the truck engine, got lucky and found the pair on e-bay NOS for under $50 US. Both were missing the same little check valve which is why they were still in the box as NOS because they didn't work correctly robbed the check valve from two non-functioning old carbs and they run great. Both are Rochester Carbs.



When I swapped engines on the 3 Tons I kept the original engines as complete units on engine stands, ready to reinstall should the need ever arise. Only thing missing fans and generators which moved over to the newer engines.

Cheers Phil

[Mike K]

The Rochester manual

http://www.newagemetal.com/pages/Ser...delBmanual.pdf

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Mike

Thanks for posting the link will print out copy put in my shop manual binder. The part that was missing in the two carbs I bought was the little ball part # 30 or 41. Only found that it was missing by matching every part with an exploded parts like the one in the manual you posted. In that case the poor parts and adjustment sheet that came with a carb rebuild kit.

Lesson I learned from that experience was if a carb doesn't work right and may have been disassembled, like " NOS " carb is make sure all the little bits are actually in correct place.

Again thanks

Cheers Phil

[Mike K]

The two hole 216 pump is identical to the single hole CMP pump...... apart from the backing plate. Is this correct ?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Chevrolet...item4196e9e3fd

Mike

[motto]

No Mike, the one and two hole pumps are quite different. I think that the only components they have in common are the moving parts. The bolt patterns are not the same and the angle of the inlet stub is also different. Put the two pumps side by side and it is immediately obvious.
The one hole pump is the same as on the GMC 270 CCKW engine but for the pulley.

Dave

[Grant Bowker]

I too found the one and two hole pump housings to be different. I tried to use the adapter plate intended for two hole pumps to put a 1 hole pump on a later (261) engine and ended up having to make my own adapter plate. The general outline is similar but not identical and only some of the bolt holes are in the same locations.

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by motto

No Mike, the one and two hole pumps are quite different. I think that the only components they have in common are the moving parts. The bolt patterns are not the same and the angle of the inlet stub is also different. Put the two pumps side by side and it is immediately obvious.
The one hole pump is the same as on the GMC 270 CCKW engine but for the pulley.

Dave

Ok thanks for that info

I found out that my Rochester Carby has been fitted to the inlet manifold of the 216 with the vacuum port to the power valve in the carby blocked off I need to modify the base mount to fix this problem

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Mike

Depending on the application and year they moved the vacuum tap around on the manifold. Is the manifold off the engine? If so I would just drill and tap the manifold near the carb. Do not try this directly under the carb as the heat riser brings the exhaust gases up in that big area.

Another alternative is make an adapter plate for under the carb and tap the vacuum through the side of the adapter. This is how they tapped the vacuum for the brake booster on some of the engines.

Take a look at http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...ifications.htm some vacuum tap locations.

Cheers Phil

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi Mike

Depending on the application and year they moved the vacuum tap around on the manifold. Is the manifold off the engine? If so I would just drill and tap the manifold near the carb. Do not try this directly under the carb as the heat riser brings the exhaust gases up in that big area.

Another alternative is make an adapter plate for under the carb and tap the vacuum through the side of the adapter. This is how they tapped the vacuum for the brake booster on some of the engines.

Take a look at http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...ifications.htm some vacuum tap locations.

Cheers Phil

Ok Phil. Good information there on your web site . The carb insulator that sits on the manifold needs to have the cut outs for the vacuum port . My Rochester has the port drilled under the carb base .

I bought one of these

http://www.classicparts.com/1937-54-.../#.VXt0cEp--Uk

Looking at their web site , classicparts have 216 parts cheaper than other sellers, eg

http://www.classicparts.com/1937-53-.../#.VXt0yUp--Uk

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Mike

Don't remember seeing that source, will have to do some looking around on that site to see what they have.

With the new gas in the US the carbs really like the insulation spacer.

The spacer I'm talking about is little over 1/2 inch thick and fits below the insulation block.

Cheers Phil

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi Mike

Don't remember seeing that source, will have to do some looking around on that site to see what they have.

With the new gas in the US the carbs really like the insulation spacer.

The spacer I'm talking about is little over 1/2 inch thick and fits below the insulation block.

Cheers Phil

Your 49 Lincoln project reminded me about the 1946 or 7 Lincoln convertible I helped to move , years ago. It was a V 12 side valve engine in that car . A similar car was in the Betty Davis movie about the 2 sisters .

The 46 was owned by a Kiwi , he shipped it from Melbourne to NZ , we loaded it onto a trailer and drove to the docks at Port Melbourne around 1 am in the early morning .

The car was stored down in a SE suburb and I followed in my ute as he drove it unregistered to Moorabbin , to await the trip to the docks on a trailer. As we drove to Moorabbin, The looks from the motorists at the traffic lights was a look of amazement , an old dusty crimson convertable with a white top and a huge long bonnet

[Mike K]

good info here

http://pugetsoundvintagechevrolet.or...h%20photos.pdf

[motto]

Mike,
I must admit you have a knack for sourcing stuff. Looking at the insulator, it may not give you what you want.
Perhaps what you may need is one of those gaskets with the four notches. The four notches are there so as you can put the gasket on any which way and one of them will give connection from the vacuum passage to the manifold interior. Depends on the carburettor I guess.

Dave

[Mike K]

The HOT ROD radiator is fitted into the C8 . It is slightly narrower compared to the original radiator, height is OK .

I will need to make a thermostat housing with a 1 1/2" hose fitting , the hose outlet on the new radiator is 1 1/2" . If I ever win lotto I will have the original radiator recored .

[motto]

The GMC 270 uses a 1-1/2" diameter top hose if I remember correctly. I may be able to help you out with the top section of one of those to save you having to make something up. The lower section should be the same.
Let me know if you're interested and I will check it out.
I've also got a quantity of those carb gaskets with the four notches though I'm not certain they are the correct size for your application.

Dave

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by motto

The GMC 270 uses a 1-1/2" diameter top hose if I remember correctly. I may be able to help you out with the top section of one of those to save you having to make something up. The lower section should be the same.
Let me know if you're interested and I will check it out.
I've also got a quantity of those carb gaskets with the four notches though I'm not certain they are the correct size for your application.

Dave

hi motto

That is a generous offer !

I will see how I go ....

I might try making a thermo housing with a BSP threaded fitting . Aluminium would be OK to use for this job . BSP fittings are ubiquitous and most hardware stores have stock .

The lower hose is 1 3/4" I think ?

When I pulled down this 216 engine, the original brass bellows thermostat was still in situ with a 1940 date on it , stuck in the open position . The new thermostat I put in , in 1998 , has corroded away and collapsed .

BTW these new aluminium radiators are prone to corrosion by a chemical/electrical reaction. The coolant can act as an electrolyte and the whole thing turns into a battery ! Good grounding is required to reduce this problem .

[Mike K]

hey dave motto

I will take that GMC thermo top housing, if you can find one

The mod I had in mind is just too difficult .

The GMC top housing should do the trick .

The Toyota 2F engine is based on a chevy engine .... a quick search found this ............ looks similar to a chevy housing but the price is ridiculous .

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOYOTA-F2...item230d8e5c3d

Thanks Mike

[Mike K]

Did some more looking .

Well, it seems that any early Holden V8 or chevy V8 eg 350 327 thermo housing top will fit the old 216

Even the chrysler 318 V8 housing will fit . I wandered down to the neighbour and checked his V8 engines out with the old 216 thermo housing.. all are the same bolt pattern

I will buy one on epay ..... Mike

[motto]

OK Mike.
I did sort out a GMC thermostat housing upper section and it is 1-1/2" diameter where the hose fits on.
I will put it back on the shelf.

Dave

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Mike,

Looks like the trusty old C8 is getting a thorough make over

Found this radiator for sale - forgive my ignorance, but could it be a Chevrolet one?

Thanks,
Hanno

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Found this radiator for sale - forgive my ignorance, but could it be a Chevrolet one?

Hanno

Not sure , but it does appear to be the same shape as the repro Chevy HOT ROD radiator I bought recently . It could be from a 1930's era Chev truck , the hose outlets do match up with Chev . The rounded top tank indicates a early 30's design to me . Just a guess .

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Not sure , but it does appear to be the same shape as the repro Chevy HOT ROD radiator I bought recently . It could be from a 1930's era Chev truck , the hose outlets do match up with Chev . The rounded top tank indicates a early 30's design to me . Just a guess .

Thanks Mike,

I forwarded the ad to a fellow MLU member restoring a C8.

H.

[Mike K]

Been held up . The carby manifold insulator I ordered has not turned up . In between, I've made new ignition leads and found some radiator hoses that will do the job . Also have bought some LED tailights and front blinkers , nice and bright . Today's drivers are notoriously bad at spotting older slower vehicles and you need very clear turn indicators .

Back to the insulator, I did a search and you can buy sheets of 10mm phenolic insulation material on EBAY cheap . Apparently it is a layered material impregnated with a resin , to attain the heat insulation properties . The 216 insulator I ordered , I think its a cheap plastic thing anyway . So I will have a go at making my own from the sheet .

[motto]

I have some NOS insulators here Mike. What are your required dimensions?
I think they are for Studebaker - Hercules JXD.
Dave

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by motto

I have some NOS insulators here Mike. What are your required dimensions?
I think they are for Studebaker - Hercules JXD.
Dave

Ok great Dave

A quick drawing for you . The dimensions are not overly critical . Anything close will be good enough

[motto]

The insulators I have here are the dimensions you give Mike except for being 3/8" thick.
If you are still interested PM an address.

Dave

[motto]

Posted the insulator this morning Mike (14th July)
I did take the Yankee joe to Echuca.
I don't remember seeing a yellow one around with an earth borer but I can remember a Yankee Joe with earth border parked in a yard around Berec that could be seen from the Princes Highway. I think it was still in use and was there for some years.

Dave

[Mike K]

I have the C8 running OK now, I had a few problems with the Rochester carby .

I have made up a brass metering plug that fits into the fuel inlet brass elbow . The elbow is not original , it had a large 1/4" hole in it and the fuel was gushing in and overcoming the needle and seat to some degree . I drilled a .060" metering hole in the plug I made . I have noticed that Holden Stromberg carbies have a similar metering hole in the fuel inlet union , the hole is progressively larger as the motor increases in ci size from grey up to red 202 . I think the metering hole restricts the fuel flow and the carby is happier .

On another topic. Does anyone know what type of mirror fitting method is used on the early cab 11/12 solid rear vision mirror arms ? The non adjustable arms . The mirror mounts to the arm somehow ? I need a close up pic of the mirror and its mount . Mike

[Lynn Eades]

Have a look at the thread about CMP parts for sale, Ex South America. I think I recall a close up of the mirror showing the clamp.