C8A HUM census numbers?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Marty Morren is looking for a suitable census number for his C8A HUM.

Who can help with contract number & census number range?

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Hanno

Two possible lists , Peter Ford, and John Merchant list. Though many of those are from existing vehicles. Will take look and see what numbers show up .
Cheers Phil


PS Is the serial or engine known both list have those as well so might find something closer.

[M.Morren]

Hi Phil,

The serial and engine numbers are:
Chassis: 3844515289
Engine: FR3918642

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by M.Morren

Hi Phil,

The serial and engine numbers are:
Chassis: 3844515289
Engine: FR3918642

Hello Marty,

LV.1679 was one of the contracts for C8A's, see Chevrolet Heavy Utility contracts.

Search this forum, and you'll find a few more C8A's supplied under that number.

HTH,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Parts of David Hayward's site were copied to other sites, for Chevrolet census numbers see his page:

"ALLOCATION OF W.D. NUMBERS BY CENTRAL CENSUS TO 23RD NOVEMBER 1944 - CHEVROLET"
at http://www.gregwapling.com/hotrod/ch...t/warchev.html

Search for "C.8A"

HTH,
Hanno

Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP)

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...k/warchev.html
http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...k/warford.html


http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...lk/WARGMC.html


http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...dgelisting.htm
http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...dgelisting.doc

Please note that these are out-of-date, and in the Ford listing there are some errors and new information.

[M.Morren]

Hi Hanno,

Thank you for sharing the link.
I'm sadly not able to get any meaningful info out of it though.
Searching fir the contract number also has not brought up anything solid.
Maybe I'm not looking good enough?
And maybe someone else has any info?

Cheers!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Marty,

Following Bram Goudkuil's suggestion I searched on the RLC Archive (https://www.rlcarchive.org) and got a subscription to do some digging.

One contract I found was (corrected below is it was transcribed incorrectly in the RLCA database):

• M 6230395 to M 6230594 SM6407 Chevrolet Car 4x4 Hvy., Utility

According to David Hayward SM6407 was an order for the C8A with 1C11 staff car body, so this number range would not really fit your C8A body style.

Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP)

I wanted to stimulate a discussion about the very end of CMP production. The last known [to me] CMP was 1C11 STAFF CAR 4844521386 ENGINE # FR4,057,573 AUGUST 31 1945 to British order SM 6407.

HTH,
Hanno

[M.Morren]

Hi Hanno,

Is M here the prefix as in CM? What does the M mean?
Also, I have to do some research on how the WD numbers work. I've not yet seen a number that started with 62.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by M.Morren

Hi Hanno,

Is M here the prefix as in CM? What does the M mean?
Also, I have to do some research on how the WD numbers work. I've not yet seen a number that started with 62.

Hi Marty,

Read for example https://www.canadiansoldiers.com/veh...lemarkings.htm > War Department/Census Numbers > Overseas

"M" stood for Car (staff car, jeep, etc.). As SM6407 was a British contract, they would not add the "C" in front as the Canadian Army did. Not a suitable census number range, as I said, we'll have to keep looking!

Hanno

[M.Morren]

Thanks for the info!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

PS: also do some searching for threads with "census" in the title.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

This table of census numbers allocated to the Canadian Army Overseas narrows down your search:


Source: Clive Law’s “Drive to Victory”

[M.Morren]

So, guessing mine should have a somewhat similar number as the ZL in the first picture of this thread, it would be somewhere in the 4208201 - 4214200 range. Ths indeed does narrow it down!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

You may also want to contact the author of this book? Rob Clarke is a member of this forum.

https://servicepub.com/product/the-h...nadian-service

[M.Morren]

Great idea! Will do.

Thanks.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

This table of census numbers allocated to the Canadian Army Overseas narrows down your search:

Source: Clive Law’s “Drive to Victory”

The list can also be found on a cached copy of Clive Law's website:

https://web.archive.org/web/20171204...allocation.htm

HTH,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Couple of pictures of a (new to me) C8A HUM in the Piana Delle Orme Museum in Italy.

Courtesy of Pierre-Olivier Buan.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Marty, as discussed here is my list of known C8A HUM serial numbers. If you have anything to add to this list, please do.

Brian Gough may have more info too, have you asked him?

Chassis model | Cab Model | Chassis serial | Engine serial | Order no | Date of mfg | Vehicle model | Body Model | Body serial | Chrysler Serial-no | WD census no. | Source
C8A | 13 | 3844515289 | FR3918642 | LV.1697 | AUG. 12/43 | C.HU-441-M-PERS-1; 2nd plate: HU441-M-MACH-ZL-1 | 1C1 | 3924 | MACH-ZL-1-068 | ... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ght=3844515289 (Marty Morren, NL)
C8A | 13 | ... |... |... |... |... |... |... |... | CZ4210145 | https://flic.kr/p/pkDhQh
C8A | 13 | 3844536668 | FR3969158 | LV.2611 | MAY 11/44 | ... | ... | ... | ... | ... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...36668#post9656
C8A | 13 | 3844536670 | FR3969311 | LV.2611 | MAY 11/44 |C-8A-MACH-ZL-2 | ... | ... | ... |... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...670#post174430 (Pieter Bergman, NL)
C8A | 13 | 3844536671 | FR3969368 | LV.2611 | MAY 11/44 | ... |... |... |... |... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...671#post129049 (Mark Coombs, USA)
C8A | 13 | 3844536688 | FR3969099 | LV.2611 | MAY 12/44 | ... |... |... |... |... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...36688#post9656
C8A | 13 | 3844536691 | FR3968926 | LV.2611 | MAY 15/44 | [plate missing] |1C1 | 6443 | ... |... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ght=3844536691 (ex-Shayne McGuire, CDN - current location u/k)
C8A | 13 | 3844536696 | FR3969103 | LV.2611 | MAY 15/44 | C-8A-MACH-ZL-2; 2nd plate: HU441-M-MACH-ZL-1 | 1C1 | 6448 | MACH-ZL-1-087 | ... | http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ght=3844536696 (John Corden, UK)


Notes on data sources:


This information comes from the data plate on top of the dash, as fitted to all Chevrolets:

Chassis model | Cab Model | Chassis serial | Engine serial | Order no | Date of mfg

The Vehicle model plate left of data plate on dash:

Vehicle model

Note: some have a second plate attached to the left of the Vehicle model plate during the conversion to HUM:

The Body plate on rear of body - this plate was added to all C8A Heavy Utilities:

Body Model | Body serial

The Chrysler plate on rear of body - this plate was added during the conversion to HUM:

Chrysler Serial-no

The Number painted on the door:

WD census no.

And Information gleaned from an open source (most often this Forum):

Source

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by M.Morren

Just to add to this thread, here are some photos of the data plates of this HUM.

[snip]

I am a bit puzzled about these though. While the Chevrolet plate says that this is a ZL-2, the Chrysler plate next to it clearly says ZL-1. I would love to see what other ZL-2s plates say. Maybe all Chrysler plates are ZL-1 and only the Chevrolet plates got the update?

Also interesting to note: My dash plate also has the C stamped in the upper half. It is stamped right on the 'M' from 'Vehicle Model'.

My observations: the Vehicle model plate is fitted to the left of the ID plate as on all Chevrolets. Two production HUMs have a Vehicle model plate denoting them as "C-8A-MACH-ZL-2", whicle the addtional plate lists "HU441-M-MACH-ZL-1" which is also fitted to (what is thought to be one of) the prototype HUMs. I do not know why they have these conflicting model plates.

See the pictures below:

S/n 3844515289

Vehicle model plate: C.HU-441-M-PERS-1
Additional Vehicle model plate: HU441-M-MACH-ZL-1

S/n 3844536670

Vehicle model plate: C-8A-MACH-ZL-2
Additional Vehicle model plate: not present

S/n 3844536696:

Vehicle model plate: C-8A-MACH-ZL-2
Additional Vehicle model plate: HU441-M-MACH-ZL-1

Another HUM I have viewed has the same Vehicle model plates as s/n 3844536696.

[M.Morren]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

S/n 3844536696:

Vehicle model plate: C-8A-MACH-ZL-2
Additional Vehicle model plate: HU441-M-MACH-ZL-1

Another HUM I have viewed has the same Vehicle model plates as s/n 3844536696.

Had the other HUM also a 'C' stamped on the 'M' of the Chrysler plate? 3844515289 and 3844536696 do, and it would be interesting to know if the other ones have this too.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by M.Morren

a 'C' stamped on the 'M' of the Chrysler plate?

Hi Marty,

Can you show me a picture? I am not sure what you mean?

[M.Morren]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Can you show me a picture? I am not sure what you mean?

I updated the post and added the pictures.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by M.Morren

I updated the post and added the pictures.

I now see what you mean. Looks like the tried to alter "Model" into "Code"?

I'll see if I can see it on the other plate.

[M.Morren]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Looks like the tried to alter "Model" into "Code"?

That was my guess as well. No idea why that would be necessary, but sure a fun little detail.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Pic of a C8A with census number Z4228599. Not a HUM, but it may help narrowing down the census number range:



https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205205976

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Original number found on a 1942 HUW in England. There was discussion but no resolution what the "T" meant.

[david moore]

From the list of vehicles of HQ 1st Can Army previously posted on this forum, I have kept a list of "HUP's" which may or may not include HUM's - it does include HUW's and HUA's - the relevant number ranges are as follows:
4213848 - 4214200
4228061 - 4229581
4236644 - 4236729

The total ranges may have been greater than this of course.

I don't think the Ford list has UK census numbers.Not in my copy at least.

By the way, the "M" prefix in the census lists stand for Motor car - let's remember English as she was spoke back then!

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by david moore

By the way, the "M" prefix in the census lists stand for Motor car - let's remember English as she was spoke back then!

"M" = Motor car
"L" = Lorry
"C" = (motor) Cycle (I get it...the M was already taken)

...but... "Z" = what? Zruck ????

[Grant Bowker]

Maybe Zpecial?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

"M" = Motor car
"L" = Lorry
"C" = (motor) Cycle (I get it...the M was already taken)

...but... "Z" = what? Zruck ????

Must have been the same problem they had with US state abbreviations ....

https://youtu.be/dLECCmKnrys